Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SShink · 3K+ Club

Jeep Grand Cherokee steering box conversion

SteveS · Super Poster

I've got it and it made a big difference. Lee Manufacturing sells the conversion rag joint and two flare adapters to convert the metric fittings on the cherokee box to the standard Chevelle hoses. I think this kit and a steering box will be all you need.

http://lee-powersteering.com/rebuild-misc.htm

bowtie · Secretary

I bet Derek has done it.

John D · 2K+ Club

Blackie's running one... (not a GC box, but one from a WS-6 'bird - same thing). The conversion halved the turns lock-to-lock, and got rid of the inherant GM "mushy-no feedback" & "drive with one finger" of the standard boxes.

As stated, new rag joint, the little conversion fitting adapters, and you'll have to transfer your existing pitman arm to the new box.

The fitting adapters are little machined "cones" that just press into the newer style box, and give you a 45deg angle for the old flare fitting to seat against. The worst part of the job is the pitman arm transfer. They can be a bear. Pullers can be rented, and a sturdy/beefy vise is needed.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

I believe Lares up in Cambridge also carries the fittings to adapt the hoses but im not sure about the rag joint coupler.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

John D wrote:
The worst part of the job is the pitman arm transfer. They can be a bear. Pullers can be rented, and a sturdy/beefy vise is needed.

Yep they can be a bear, I busted Derek's puller getting mine off. I got lucky the Holley assy bracket was designed for the Corvette PS pump and as luck would have it Corvette lines fit.

You could just buy the standard Chevelle hose cut the gearbox fittings off and install metric ones; ORiley's has the fittings.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

What condition are your P/S hoses in? If you need hoses anyways due to age and leaking. I would consider what Kevin brought up. Getting bolt in hoses with the appropriate metric fitting and not bother with the adapters, I cant recall the make and model hose recommendation with a GC box but it has been discussed before on TC. I might very well be a Corvette hose but I don't remember. I believe JimL82 might have been the one that recommended it.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

I got one of the Lares boxes. Straight swap and easy to do other than the pitman arm. They are the same box as the Camaro Z, just rebuilt. I love mine.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

I kind of did a modification of the conversion. Lee will actually take your old box modify the T-bar in the input shaft to get the required effort and they will put in a new piston and worm gear to get the ratio you want and replace the pitman shaft and anything else that the gear needs. Since they use your old input shaft, you will not have to use a different coupler. This is about a $600 option and you cannot tell it from the original unless you get in the car and turn the steering wheel. They also have other options using a JGC box.

Lares has a couple of options depending upon what box you want and what kind of fittings. I think the original style box is about $200 more.

A friends that does a lot of work with hydraulics says your old hoses will probably work longer than any new reproduction hoses. If you don't care about looks you can go with industrial hoses which are better.

What I did was buy a JGC box and a gear seal kit from Rock Auto and put the JGC internals into my old box. I used the pitman shaft and cover from my old box. If you use the JGC pitman shaft, you will have to use the JGC cover. I used my old hoses with the correct fittings.

I had to get an rag joint from a old chevy truck. Not to hard to find. It fits on the 3/4 input shaft (the old input shaft is 13/16") and mates up perfectly to you steering column flange. Some people try to charge a fortune for this coupler. I paid $10.

They are guys who re-build the old gear box; but don't make the modification on the T- bar and thus have the same steering effort. A little heat on the pitman arm and the puller with snap the arm of the pitman shaft. More difficult to get the arm off the steering link, at least that was my experience.

Total cost $80. If you want, give me a call.

-- Edited by jim larson on Tuesday 22nd of April 2014 08:11:32 AM

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
What condition are your P/S hoses in? If you need hoses anyways due to age and leaking. I would consider what Kevin brought up. Getting bolt in hoses with the appropriate metric fitting and not bother with the adapters, I cant recall the make and model hose recommendation with a GC box but it has been discussed before on TC. I might very well be a Corvette hose but I don't remember. I believe JimL82 might have been the one that recommended it.

The hoses were new last year. No skanky greasy old hoses for the frame off restoration.

For $18, I'll buy the Lee's adaptor fittings that Steve S. suggested to keep the hoses I have and keep it looking stock.

UPull in Rosemount has 4 '96-98 JGC's in inventory, so I may have to run out there and snag one of the steering boxes if they have one that has less than 100K miles on it. After reading TC, it's a crap shoot that you will get the right internals on a rebuilt one, but for $102 (Incl. $35 core charge), Rock Auto does have them, so I just need to decide if I want to go crawl around UPull or not.

Thanks Jim for the info. I'm not too hung up on the box not looking stock other than re-using the hoses I have, so I'll probably go with an orginal JGC box from UPull or the one from Lares.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Update... UPull wants $26 for one of the '98 JGC boxes, so looks like I am going to get dirty! Hard to turn that down, and I know it will have the right parts inside of it.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

SShink wrote:
Update... UPull wants $26 for one of the '98 JGC boxes, so looks like I am going to get dirty! Hard to turn that down, and I know it will have the right parts inside of it.

Not sure all JGC boxes will work, I have a list somewhere with the correct code that should be stamped on the sticker that is pasted on the top of the cover. Jim Shea has a list of the correct codes, I have that list somewhere.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Be sure to keep the hoses away from those noisy, heat radiating, spark plug wire burning, hand branding, drag on the ground, can't get to the oil filter much less the starter, bolts won't hold torque,, burn through power steering hoses non stock looking headers.

I did the mod to the Buick and after driving it again last weekend I'm wondering if the steering is to sensitive or if it's the very large Buick steering wheel.

-- Edited by dashboard on Tuesday 22nd of April 2014 08:38:44 AM

SShink · 3K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
Not sure all JGC boxes will work, I have a list somewhere with the correct code that should be stamped on the sticker that is pasted on the top of the cover. Jim Shea has a list of the correct codes, I have that list somewhere.

Is this the list (I found it on TC)?

1992-98 Grand Cherokee Fast Ratio Power Steering Gears
YEAR ALPHA CODE ORIGINAL APPLICATION GEARRATIO EFFORT T-BAR SIZE TRAVEL
1992.5-93-94 AL Jeep Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195 Dia 43deg 45min
1995 JH Jeep Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195 Dia 43deg 45min
1996 KD Jeep Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195 Dia 43deg 45min
1997-98 WK Jeep Grand Cherokee 12.7:1 20-26 0.195 Dia 43deg 45min

jim larson · 2K+ Club

You will probably have to replace the input shaft seal and the pitman shaft seal.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Scored a '97 JGC 'WK' coded box and bolts from UPull last Friday afternoon for $27 all in. It's a little grungy, but should clean up nice.

I received the Lee's fittings and install tool 2 days after calling them in California, and picked up the $30 Lares rag joint from Advance Auto Parts as well. So I'm $77 all in.

I'll probably work on this project during the week since it's Noah's Ark season now... and it doesn't look like it clears off until Sunday!

jim larson · 2K+ Club

I think the rag joint you need is gm 7826542 which was changed to gm 2290000. I think the lares joint will work; but doesn't have the exact dimensions for your steering column flange. I have been told the Dorman 31001 is a better fit. And of course you can get one from an old gm 4 or 2 WD truck.

gm

another one

Thinking the distance between the center of the holes for mounting the coupler to the steering column flange is different.

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 28th of April 2014 12:27:45 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 28th of April 2014 12:39:07 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 28th of April 2014 12:43:50 PM

SteveS · Super Poster

I got my rag joint from Lee along with the fittings. I thought it was one kit, but maybe I ordered it separately.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Warning

SShink · 3K+ Club

Thanks for the warning tip Jim. I'll make sure the pinch bolt gets torqued properly.

There are a lot of posts on TC saying no issues using the Lares #200 coupler. I'll take a look to make sure there aren't any alignment issues with the coupler before I install it.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Check out the 200 specifications on the Ebay item.

Ebay

JIML82

Stan you may want to read this thread on TC. JIML82 is suppose to be the expert when it comes to Saginaw steering as he was an engineer there and has all kinds of published papers. The bolt hole centers on my column flange is 2 7/16". The 200 claims 2 9/16". Also I think you flange uses two different size bolts. One is 5/16 and the other is 3/8; but on the 200 they probably have some way to account for that.

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 28th of April 2014 02:28:17 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 28th of April 2014 02:29:24 PM

John D · 2K+ Club

Something nagging at me recalls having to open-up/drill out one of the rag joint flange holes slightly...

Originally there were two 3/8" NSF bolts in the coupler, and the new joint uses a 5/16 & a 3/8... or something like that. I just remember having to open up one hole on the joint for some reason or another.

The other thing to keep in mind is the copper or steel strap things that span the bolt holes. They maintain electrical continuity/ground through the column shaft.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

66 and earlier original rag joints used two 5/16" fine threaded bolts. These were not just any old bolts; but bolts with a special collar. The collar was designed so that it would fit exactly into the hole in the rubber part of the rag joint and mate up to the steering column flange and when you tightened up the nut you would not compress the rubber part of the rag joint.

67 and later used a 5/16 fine thread and a 3/8" (course thread I think). I think the 5/16" fine thread had a special collar; not sure about the 3/8"; but think it would also so as not to compress the rag joint rubber to the flange when tightening the nut. They changed to two different size bolts so you would not put the rag joint on 180 degree off.

Copper or stew strap came about in 67, they used a wire with a copper end in 66 and earlier years.

The distance between the mounting hole centers remained the same 2.444" and the distance between the centers of the pin are remained the same. The size of the pins changed from 66-67.

'

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Stan, have we been for a test drive yet?

jim larson · 2K+ Club

I saw his car at the Fairgrounds today. Forgot to look for the change.

SShink · 3K+ Club

No test drives yet. Cleaning up and getting parts ready to go on first. The other priority was replacing the shocks all the way around with some Belltech shocks that are made for lowered springs. I found that the stock shocks (especially the fronts) were too compressed due to the 1" lower springs, and didn't rebound fast enough. The Belltech's solved that, and it rides and handles much better.

So, here's the box after a trip to the car wash for some degreasing:

And after some spray gray cast paint:

I'm taking the vert to Maaco to adjust the passenger door, and put a final realignment on the hood since I had it off for the engine install, so might do the steering box swap this weekend.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Looks great Stan, I'd replace the seal while it's on the bench. Please say high to the crew at Maaco for me.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Took advantage of the long weekend and 2 hours later the new/old JGC is in (and that was going really slow and fighting the pitman arm for about 10 min.). It really was a straight forward bolt in, and once the old pitman arm decided it wanted to let go, it was easy peasy from there.

All I can say is the feel is much FIRMER, and the steering effort went up a lot, but it's still reasonable and responsive. I'm glad I did it, and would recommend it to anyone else. Especially for the $100 total it cost.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Stan, you are going to love it .I did the Lares conversion vs the JGC last year and all I can say is why did I wait so long. Handling improved beyond belief. Like Dashboard said, watch that big steering wheel, it is easy to overcorrect.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Jon H wrote:
Stan, you are going to love it .I did the Lares conversion vs the JGC last year and all I can say is why did I wait so long. Handling improved beyond belief. Like Dashboard said, watch that big steering wheel, it is easy to overcorrect.

Yep... found the next weakest link. Now I need a bigger front sway bar. I see a 1 1/4" front bar in the future.

I've had the box ready since May, wish I'd done it sooner.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Can't agree with you guys more. Just wondering Stan, what size is your swap bar? I am thinking the Malibu and SS are different. Why do you think you need to go to 1 1/4"? What advantages does it give you?

SShink · 3K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
Can't agree with you guys more. Just wondering Stan, what size is your swap bar? I am thinking the Malibu and SS are different. Why do you think you need to go to 1 1/4"? What advantages does it give you?

It currently has the stock Malibu front sway bar, which is 15/16". Going larger usually firms up the front end when cornering. I have 1" lowering springs and shocks, so it handles better than stock, but it still has a little bit of roll going into corners.

Of course, now that I drive that '96 RS Camaro, I've gotten used to the tighter handling, and that's with struts and shocks that have 125K miles on them. Rear shocks are next on the Camaro 'to do' list, but half the rear interior needs to be taken apart to get to the top of the shock tower nuts, so I'm putting that off for some Sunday afternoon.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Gee, thinking in 66 Malibu was 7/8 and SS was 15/16.

SteveS · Super Poster

I've got a Hotchkis 1.25" front, 1" rear kit. Big difference keeping the car flat in the corners.

Chris S · Active Member

I installed the hotchkis sway bars a few years ago. Big difference on my Malibu which had no rear sway bar to start with.