Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

John D · 2K+ Club

RE: The "40 Watt Garage" may go up to 400 watts!

Lost in the 60s · President

T-8 high output fixtures will come on when cold. I have the extinct T-12 HO's in my shop that come on immediately, but I keep it at 38° all winter. Five 8 foot fixtures light up the 1100 sq ft quite well, but they are 14' above the floor to spread the light.

John D · 2K+ Club

Got 90% of the electrical roughed-in today, and Sheryl manning (womaning?) the screw-gun got 4 joists worth of old screws out!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Team work! Hey about the can lighting your contemplating, will they work with the metal ribbing? I was looking at T5 lighting but I'm not sure I can justify the added cost over T8 lighting.

John D · 2K+ Club

I can be pretty selective about the placement, and regardless of location I'd have to build some "squares" of plywood or something that had fillers for the valleys in the tin (to get a decent flush mount).

As far as T-5 vs T-8... I'm just looking at what's cheapest, if the fixtures are "gang-able" (end to end), and will fit in the valley of the tin.

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
I can be pretty selective about the placement, and regardless of location I'd have to build some "squares" of plywood or something that had fillers for the valleys in the tin (to get a decent flush mount).

As far as T-5 vs T-8... I'm just looking at what's cheapest, if the fixtures are "gang-able" (end to end), and will fit in the valley of the tin.

I thought I saw an adaptor to mount a light on that followed the tin surface but provided a flat surface for the fixture ?? I will have to look for them again later.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Been over a week now with no updates, updates what's going on in SLP.

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
Been over a week now with no updates, updates what's going on in SLP.

And also silence from Defiance on the garagemahol. Surely the ground has thawed and been broken open...

John D · 2K+ Club

Ok guys... I get it...
(Been commuting to Eau Claire every day for a job, so my after work carpentry/electrician time is hampered - I'm pretty much beat when I get home)

Got all 387456 screws & nails out of the joists, the electrical is completely roughed in, the old lights are lit & hanging by temp wires (so I can just move them out of the way during insulation), the foam vent baffle/insulation thingies are in, and the "J" channel for the tin ceiling is up around the perimeter.

The "J" channel was a bytch... not installing it, but cutting 1/2" off the tops of ALL the wall sheathing, all the way around the perimeter. The original ceiling was 1/2" 'rock, and the "J" channel is 1"..

Hopefully this weekend will be the "Itch-Fest 2014". Insulating. Might even get some tin hung!

Now, I/we need your help. Sheryl & I are at a somewhat of a "design impass" concerning the garage door. Due to circumstances & the project, we are going ahead and replacing the overhead door during this project. We both agree on the long-wide panel style, I can go either way on the window "count", but we are not in agreement on the placement of the windows. The options are to have them in the top course/panel of the door, or the 2nd course/panel.

Which do you prefer??

Lost in the 60s · President

This is exactly what we have. Not necessarily my preference but I don't want people looking in either. We've grown used to it and like it.

1529435?AWSAccessKeyId=1XXJBWHKN0QBQS6TGPG2&Expires=1400112000&Signature=V8n3d%2FmcWMZTQq9N0jBII4PCTuc%3D

SShink · 3K+ Club

I'm with Mitch. That was my recommendation also, and similar to what's on our detached shop. The windows are high enough that it's hard to look in for security.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I’d say windows on top for security if you want or think you need to have windows; I removed them from my Eagan garage because they faced west and the summer sun would turn the garage into an oven. My first concern would be the insulation value of the door with or without windows.
Go back and look at Keith’s garage project (I bumped it up), he incorporated several interesting ideas. I really like his use of installing wall lighting and how he ran his door tracks to the ceiling.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
dashboard wrote:
Been over a week now with no updates, updates what's going on in SLP.
And also silence from Defiance on the garagemahol. Surely the ground has thawed and been broken open...

With some luck we may start digging this week, plans have been approved by the city. I'll dig up and revive the post.

John D · 2K+ Club

One thing I neglected to mention... ok, two things:

a) it's an 8' door
b) it's frosted glass

bowtie · Secretary

Ditch the windows, paint on squares if you like the look. You'll be adding enough light that these won't make a difference. As an outsider looking in, the frosting would take care of it, but for physical security that man door on the side is #1 concern (frosted or not), but I assume you're leaving that because it's a detached garage.

John D · 2K+ Club

The windows are a concession to style and "Mama"... they're too small & too high up for anyone to crawl through.

The man door, window, and structure have several levels of security devices (physical & electronic) already in place, so it's not really a concern. (they will prevent an amatuer crook, and deter a determined one long enough for me to get a sight-picture )

Jon H · 1K+ Club

I like the window look just for style especially in a residential neighborhood. Based on your comments we know security is not an issue. Definitely the long style just for cleaning sake, why wash 12 windows when you can wash four?

Lost in the 60s · President

Jon H wrote:
I like the window look just for style especially in a residential neighborhood. Based on your comments we know security is not an issue. Definitely the long style just for cleaning sake, why wash 12 windows when you can wash four?

The Prairie style panes are just plastic dividers inside. The outside glass is still all one piece.

Who the heck washes the windows on a garage door anyway ???? We never have....

John D · 2K+ Club

I "worked myself out of work" at work yesterday (does that make sense?) - called in and they didn't have anything for me so I took a 1/2 day.

Marathon session at the 40 Watt Garage

Got home, hooked up the trailer and went to "Save Big Money". Picked up 13 rolls of insulation for the attic. (13 rolls doesn't sound like much, but they're 24" wide, and 32 FEET long!!)
Since I "love" fibreglass insulation soooo much - there was no way I was going to subject myself to doing this over 2 or 3 sessions - I'm gonna get filthy and itch ONCE!!

Started about 1430, got 4 courses hung by dinner, and finished off the job about midnight.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Looks good JD. I hate the overhead work part of these projects!

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
I "worked myself out of work" at work yesterday (does that make sense?) - called in and they didn't have anything for me so I took a 1/2 day.

Marathon session at the 40 Watt Garage

Got home, hooked up the trailer and went to "Save Big Money". Picked up 13 rolls of insulation for the attic. (13 rolls doesn't sound like much, but they're 24" wide, and 32 FEET long!!)
Since I "love" fibreglass insulation soooo much - there was no way I was going to subject myself to doing this over 2 or 3 sessions - I'm gonna get filthy and itch ONCE!!

Started about 1430, got 4 courses hung by dinner, and finished off the job about midnight.

There is a "non-itch" insulation available, but I think it costs more.

I, too, HATE working with that crap...

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Of all the miserable tasks that must be done during a remodel project stuffing insulation is at the top of the list. I’ll bet you’re happy to have that one behind you. How are you going to deal with your copper airline and the electrical conduit/wiring, will it go above or below the steel ceiling?

I ask because I have not yet decided and would be interested in your thoughts. I’ve learned that shop requirements can change over time and perhaps mounting air and some electrical externally would offer greater flexibility latter on.

John D · 2K+ Club

Made some more progress today, got about 50% of the ceiling tin up with Jr's & Sheryl's help, and mounted the 1st string of lights. I've already pre-located the feeder drops for the lighting circuits, and they'll through the ceiling into the fixtures with a short nipple (nothing exposed).

The old lighting (with the goofy shrouds) is dismounted from the joists and just hanging by some baling wire so I've got lights to work. It'll come down as work progresses and the new fixtures come online.

The air line & hose reel will go back on "surface" mounted. The new duplex outlet (by the hatch) will be for the trouble-light reel.

I don't have a problem fishing walls for a future outlet if I've missed something, or need to add something. I do it every day at work.

Lost in the 60s · President

Looks nice !!! That will brighten it up in there.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, I finally got back at it. I lost a few weekends with Graduation and Cabin Opener, but I filled the time during the week chipping away with getting my electrical drops and other things ready for the last push on the ceiling.

Another marathon session today. Rented a sheetrock jack/lift for the last 9 panels (shoulda done this for the 1st nine...). These are 14' long, and it's nutz what only 2 feet more does to manageability! Got those installed, and hung the remaining light fixtures in place.

I was pretty darn close with my drops/feeders, and the final connections didn't take too long.

All I can say is WOW. I'm having a hard time imagining what it'll be like when I get the walls painted white too!!

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
I'm having a hard time imagining what it'll be like when I get the walls painted white too!!

You're gonna need sun glasses inside....

bowtie · Secretary

Most of the time, I only use the regular bulb light, but lately I have gotten more into using the tubes when I'm working on a project out there. I don't do it at night much though because it's like daylight inside. You're going to love it.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Looking good John, nice and bright. I'm going to steal some of your ideas and put steal on my ceiling also.

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
Looking good John, nice and bright. I'm going to steal some of your ideas and put steal on my ceiling also.

Looks awesome JD! Lighting is one of the most overlooked upgrades in shops that I see, IMO. It makes such a huge difference to see what you are working on, and with your attention to detail... I know it will let you make things even more 'JD clean' for gasket sealing when you are working on projects!

Kevin, I've had this on my shop radar since putting up the foiled insulation in my shop, as well as after seeing Pushrod's shop ceiling. I hope to do it this Fall. Now we have a couple of Subject Matter Experts to reach out to in the club.

Dan Williams · Active Member

Only have 12 T5 fixtures in a 40x60 and it is plenty bright in there. Rarely even drag out a trouble light even under a car. These were before all the crap moved in.

bowtie · Secretary

Yeah, I need to upgrade the front garage lights. Was doing some stuff up there and actually used light from the back to help light up the front. I have only 6 screw-in bulbs up front (over front and back of each stall space) and with the tall ceilings it's not enough.

-- Edited by bowtie on Monday 2nd of June 2014 08:53:14 AM

John D · 2K+ Club

A few tips from the "been there, done that" school of hanging tin siding on the ceiling...

- Take lots of measurements, and lay it out from the centerline to the walls. Mark a centerline down the space, then "reverse engineer" the panel spacing to the walls, this will give you evenly cut panels for the last pieces nearest the walls. (like tile... no "sliver pieces" at the edges, and it'll help you estimate material).
- Make marks on the "long end" walls where the 1st and last ribs of each panel should fall. This will help you keep it square (very important).
- The stuff goes on overlapping the 1st/previous panel. Any errors in "squareness" exponentially multiply with the next panel. There is NO fudging this stuff. Each panel locks to the previous.
- Snap chalk lines, or have a mason's string rigged up so you can hit the trusses with the screws. You just run then through the tin (no pre-drilling) and it's easy to get off-line.
- This is a perfect excuse to buy yourself a nice new cordless drill/screw gun! You'll need it.
- I used a variety of hole-saws, then tin-snips or my air nibbler to cut the panels for outlet boxes, obstructions, etc. (measure SIX times, cut once)
- Buy a 3-pack of cheap leather gloves.
- Rent a sheetrock jack. Even with helper(s), the stuff's a bytch to manage (floppy down the long axis).
- Have more than one ladder, or use a rolling scaffold.

Jon H · 1K+ Club

Dan Williams wrote:
Only have 12 T5 fixtures in a 40x60 and it is plenty bright in there. Rarely even drag out a trouble light even under a car. These were before all the crap moved in.

Dan,

Are your T5 fixtures 2 bulb or three bulb?

Lost in the 60s · President

They appear to be 4 tube.

Dan Williams · Active Member

Mitch got it right, they are 4 tube high bay light fixtures. The same ones our college put in their Gym. They have full spectrum day light bulbs. A little spendy, but the light is as close to sunshine as I could find. My old eyes appreciate all the help they can get.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well I'm likin' it!!

Brought "Blackie" home earlier this week, and have been giving him the once-over for the pending Pequot Lake trip. "I can see"!! (sometimes that's not a good thing)

So far my bestest/favorite is the bank of light over the bench. Lots of light, no shadows, and it's just NICE!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Dan,

Where did you get your light fixtures at?

Are they 120V or 240V?

Do you remember how pricy they where?

Dan Williams · Active Member

They are 120v and actually by the time you price out all the T12 fixtures it would take to give me the same light it wasn't real bad. The company I dealt with was Full Spectrum Solutions. They did a lighting layout, were real easy to work with. It has been about 7 years and I would do it again in a second if that is a reference.

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/commercial_lighting_fixtures_35_ctg.htm are the fixtures i used. Derek has been here a few times working on my stuff, you can ask him what he thinks.

Lost in the 60s · President

Dan Williams wrote:

http://www.fullspectrumsolutions.com/commercial_lighting_fixtures_35_ctg.htm%20%20%20 are the fixtures i used. Derek has been here a few times working on my stuff, you can ask him what he thinks.

Live link

Dan Williams · Active Member

Thanks Mitch

bowtie · Secretary

I believe we use the same ones (5 lamp) in our shop. You can tell when one is out, we have 2 story ceilings and it's still brighter inside than out most days.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, another marathon session in the shop today...

Got the ceiling fan assembled and mounted. Welded up a wire-frame "guard" to keep the trouble light and extension cord from accidentally getting pulled into the blades.

I've been waiting on re-decking the attic space until I got the compressed air piping, hose reel, trouble light, and extension cord mounted to the ceiling. I had to install "blocking/scabs" between the joists for something to screw into, and that happens from above. Got the blocking installed, then the hose-reel re-mounted and plumbed, and a new retractable extension cord reel and retractable LED trouble light. On to the attic.

The previous owner used whatever scraps of plywood he had laying around up there. It was a mess and with 1/2" & 3/4" it was a PAIN to slide anything around without getting snagged. Well now the whole usable attic space is decked in 1/2" OSB.

Pics to come.

John D · 2K+ Club

As promised...

The ceiling fan really makes a difference in the space. Even on low, it just moves air around and it's nice in there.

I used a few "leftovers/truck-stock" camera swivel mounts and mounted my Boston HD-5's to the ceiling (I'll run proper wiring later, when I do the walls), and we made a serious sort & toss-donate session before bringing stuff back to the attic. Goodwill got a lot of stuff.

Lost in the 60s · President

John D wrote:
As promised...

The ceiling fan really makes a difference in the space. Even on low, it just moves air around and it's nice in there.
I used a few "leftovers/truck-stock" camera swivel mounts and mounted my Boston HD-5's to the ceiling (I'll run proper wiring later, when I do the walls), and we made a serious sort & toss-donate session before bringing stuff back to the attic. Goodwill got a lot of stuff.

Looks really neat and clean !!!

Is that wire guard strong enough when you get PO'd and start yanking the cord harder...

We need to do a serious sort and toss too. Actually, I need to start with a 10 yard dumpster at the shop...

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

Can't wait to see this...!

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, attendees of the June meeting will notice a difference between yesterday & today...

Today's project was the workbench on the west wall. It's about 90% complete. The "plan" is to cut holes in the top, and flush/surface mount the blast cabinet & parts washer into the benchtop (you can see the "saddles" that the parts washer tank will rest into).

The benchtop is 3/4" MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard), framing is std. 2x4, and the posts are PT 4x4. I like the MDF for the benchtop, as it's HEAVY as h*ll, can be "machined", doesn't split or chunk-out (when pre-drilled), and readily takes a sealer.

The bottom will be decked in OSB for storage, and an intermediate shelf put it where allowed. The front face will be finished to match the existing bench, with doors for access.

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 29th of June 2014 11:12:51 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

That is going to be a really neat set-up. The only thing I see that concerns me is the supports for the parts washer. I would put a 2x4/4x4 under the center of each stringer as they will be tasked with holding a lot of weight with only 8 screws from straight up into the risers. Might be overkill and you may have it designed for the rim of the tub to rest on the bench surface too...

bowtie · Secretary

I suspect it will be hung like a sink with the lip resting on the top. I like the setup, makes me think about something like that for my shop. I'm kinda getting over the dirty side setup I currently have. It's functional but not exactly what I want.

John D · 2K+ Club

You're both kinda right... Got the parts washer cut in yesterday, and the blast cabinet tonight.

I was kicking around doing this for a few years. What stopped me was occasionally over-thinking the deal, and saying to myself "self... what if you want to move the stuff around? It would be locked into a certain spot." Well, in the 4+ years I've had the two items, the parts washer has NEVER moved (too dang heavy & flimsy legs), and the blaster to retrieve something that fell behind it.

Well now I better storage under the items, the bench is still reasonably functional as a horizontal surface catch-all (with the washer lid down), and once I get the front on with the doors, the crap in storage will be out of sight.

I'll cut in a hard-piped compressed air drop down to the space between the two, and have a curly hose there. Then I'll have air for the cabinet or air for a blow-gun to dry parts.

bowtie · Secretary

You really got me thinking about a next winter rehab project. I have about 10' of wall with one small window over the right side and my compressor on the other end. Compressor won't be moving (other than maybe up like yours was), and I want to separate the dirty/machining/woodshop front half of the garage from the clean rear side which is separated by an overhead door.