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Stan says the forum has been too quiet lately and wants to hear about projects so I'll post about my "make the garage habitable" project.   First, a little background.  I tried to make it short.  If it gets too long and boring, skip to the bottom for the actual work I'm doing. 

Since 2007 I've moved twice.  I started out with a 960 sq. ft. heated, insulated, and finished garage with attic storage.  I had the shell built and did everything else myself.   It was perfect and I loved it.  Then I moved to Lonsdale and bought a home with a 3 car attached garage.   It was heated and insulated but I lost 100 sq. ft. of floor space and a lot of storage space.  One year ago this month I bought a house in Rochester.

We looked all over for the perfect combination of location, price, home, land, and plenty of garage/building space.  It just couldn't be found.  We were going to have to compromise somewhere.  We found a home in Rochester that pretty much fit the bill with the exception of the garage.  It was a major downgrade.  No heat, and no insulation.  It's a three stall with three doors, 33'w x 21'd,  690 sq. ft.  I lost 6' of depth compared to the Lonsdale place.   It's on the far end of the house and the doors face the side so you enter from the side, not the front.  The interior wall adjoining the house was insulated and sheetrocked and the ceiling was sheetrocked per code.  No taping had been done. 

Before we bought the place, I met with a contractor and he gave me some good ideas on expanding the existing garage or building a new detached garage and the costs were acceptable.  In the meantime, with winter approaching, I wanted to at least get heat installed and get the thing insulated.  I pulled the 75k BTU unit heater out of the Lonsdale garage (renters didn't want to heat it) and had it installed in the new place.  I started insulating the side walls but didn't finish.  I also only got one garage door insulated.  I wasn't sure how much I wanted to finish in case we decided to tear it up in the spring to expand it.  Luckily it was a mild winter!  We bought a 4-post lift so we were able to squeeze 4 cars in it which only left the big Dodge Ram out in the cold. 

After stressing out over it all winter and changing my mind a dozen times, I finally decided to expand the garage  by 12 ft. in width towards the front, change the entry to the front and wall off the three individual doors effectively making it a 21' wide by 45' deep garage.  After several months getting used to the side entry, both Judy and I decided we preferred a front entrance and a wider door anyway.  I got three bids including one from the contractor I met before we bought the place and was shocked.  The cost was over twice what he told me last year.  The other two were even higher.  WTF??   Back to square one.  Then in July we bought my old El Camino back which pretty much killed any thought of expanding or building a new garage for the foreseeable future.  I'd have to work with what I got.

ELECTRICAL:

The first thing that needed attention was the electrical.  There was only one 15 amp circuit feeding three single bulb ceiling light fixtures, two convenience outlets, three outside floods and one outside light fixture by the service entrance.  The electrical panel was conveniently located in the basement at the opposite end of the house  so pulling in more individual circuits was out of the question.  A sub panel was the only option.  I pulled in 70' of SER feeder cable from the electrical panel to the new sub panel.   Thankfully the basement ceiling hadn't been finished off.  I ran two 220v circuits, one for the welder and one for the 2-post lift and air compressor,  two 20v circuits for convenience outlets and installed outlets wherever I could, and one 15 amp circuit for an additional row of fluorescent ceiling fixtures and two fluorescent fixtures on the wall next to the 2-post lift.  I converted the three existing bulb fixtures to fluorescents as well.   I also pulled in two coax cables for a TV.  I haven't decided where I'm going to hang it yet.  I left the existing 15amp circuit in place.  Not having insulation in the attic made all this wiring fairly painless.  The hardest part was pulling the SER cable from the basement into the garage. 

INSULATION:

The next step was finishing the wall, door, and attic insulation.  The 2x4 walls only allow enough insulation for R15.  The garage door insulation is even worse at only R8.  Better than nothing I guess.  I made sure the attic was well insulated though.  I decided to go with blow in insulation in the attic.  To prepare for it, I had to install 20 soffit vent chutes to keep the insulation out of the soffits.   I also taped and mudded all the ceiling drywall joints to seal it off.  Home Depot has a deal going where if you buy 20 bags or more of insulation, you get a free 24 hour blower rental.  So I decided to do it myself.  I do NOT recommend this!   I blew in 45 bags of loose fill insulation in the attic by myself.  Enough to cover 750 sq. ft. 12" deep.  The hopper on the machine would only hold one bag so I had to climb up and down from the attic at least 45 times.  It took 8 hours.  What a PITA!  Thank God I chose cellulose because I was covered from head to toe by the stuff.  If I had gone with fiberglass, I'd probably still have it in my skin, eyes, and who knows where else.  The only saving grace was it cost me a fraction of what it would have cost to hire someone to do it.  Not sure it was worth it though.

DRYWALL:

I had to rock both ends of the interior wall, both side walls, and over and between the garage doors.  I'm almost done.  I need two more sheets to finish the job.  I'll get all the seams taped and mudded so the garage will be sealed up as much as possible.  I tried to plan the layout to keep waste down but I think I wasted too much time in the process.  The ceiling was already rocked which was a huge labor and time savings.  They used nails on the edges of the panels and screws everywhere else.  The nails are odd.  I can't believe this is still a standard practice.  There were many that had come loose so I had to go over the whole ceiling and put a screw next to each nail.  I'll finish the joints as best I can but I'm not going to be too anal about it.  It is just a garage after all.

PAINTING:

I'm going to take my time doing the painting over the winter.   I'll start with the ceiling.  I'm going to use a primer/vapor barrier first since they didn't install a vapor barrier before they rocked it.  I installed insulation with a vapor barrier in the walls so a regular primer/sealer will be fine there.  I'll paint everything white first and then see if I need a splash of color later.  I have plenty of "garage art" so it may not need it. 

MISCELANEOUS:

I put the 4-post lift in the middle stall and the 2-post in the right stall.  I had to do a "high lift" modification to the garage door tracks so I could open the door when there is a car raised on the 4-post lift.  I raised the tracks as high as I could without the door hitting the ceiling.  Since this completely changes how high the door has to be lifted before it goes horizontal, I had to replace the cable drums, cables and get a new torsion spring.  There's an outfit in Chicago, IL. that sells everything you need for this conversion.  All you have to do is give them the weight of the door, the additional lift height, and the type of drum and they figure out which spring you need.  I also had to get a new garage door opener since the conventional style won't work with the type of conversion I did and I didn't want it hanging in the way anyway.  So I bought a jackshaft opener which attaches directly to the end of the torsion shaft.  No chains!  It's a pretty slick little unit.  Kind of pricey but it comes with a wireless ceiling light, a deadbolt, two fancy remotes, and a programmable wall controller that shows the time, temperature, etc.   I have enough ceiling height that I can put the El Camino on the lift and raise it one notch below the top.  And I can leave the tires on!  J   That gives me plenty of room to park my daily driver underneath.  I could probably raise it to the max height but why risk it. 

I installed a convenience outlet in the ceiling above the unit heater and ran the thermostat control wire up through the ceiling and down the wall behind the drywall for a nice clean install.  I did the same with the garage door opener wires.  I don't like visible wires running across the ceiling and down walls. 

 

With two lifts, a tire machine, tire balancer, air compressor, chemicals cabinet, rollaway tool chest, workbench, engine on an engine stand, and a 2' x 6' bump out for the living room fireplace, it's pretty cramped for four cars but it will have to do for now.  The entire basement has turned into a storage space and is a complete disaster.  That's my next project.  :(

I was lax at taking very many good pictures.    Here are a few that show what I started with.  I'll take some current pics tomorrow and post them.  I'll try and post more as I progress.

 



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Keith - Rochester, MN

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The price going up is the result of rising material prices and more people doing remodeling, keeping the contractors busy. The price of material went up because the yards were selling less and not making enough profit. Sounds rather backward to raise the price when it isn't selling to begin with...doh  If you have enough land, just plat a new shop the size you want and after the slab is poured, get an old fashioned "barn raising" out there...thumbsup

I had 110 bags of cellulose to blow in the ceiling of my shop. I had my Dad feeding the hopper but it would plug up if he fed too much and it DID take all day...rant2 I found out after the fact that I shouldn't have used the cellulose because the metal roof can sweat and drip in it. Being it's a paper product, it can mold and hold the moisture against the ceiling, causing rust. I've crawled up there a couple since then and don't see, or smell, any issues with it. Hopefully if it starts that process, it will take 30 years and I'll be out of here by then.

Curious about the electrical box in the last pic, just sitting in the middle of the rock. Must be an outlet for a door opener ? Hopefully there's no real weight pulling on it.

Good thing you are so far from me now that I know you have tire equipment. I'm ALWAYS moving tires around on wheels and it gets spendy in a hurry.



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Two hoists and a killer aluminum wheel tire machine. Thats what im talking about.notworthy



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I need a to borrow a couple of things, your tire machine and organizeing skills! I have a lot of space, just never seem to have things where I need them when I need them. Have 3600 sq ft of garage/shop and Cathy had to park outside a couple of winters ago. Did not go over well!Imgonna



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Thanks for posting your garage project Keith, having done a couple I find it very interesting; always nice to watch and follow someone’s progress so please keep posting. I have garage envy already, I wish I had that height in my garage. What’s your plan for shelving, cabinets, and work bench?



-- Edited by dashboard on Monday 12th of November 2012 09:21:51 AM

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Lost in the 60s wrote:

  If you have enough land, just plat a new shop the size you want and after the slab is poured, get an old fashioned "barn raising" out there...thumbsup

I think that is going to be the best bang for the buck.  

Curious about the electrical box in the last pic, just sitting in the middle of the rock. Must be an outlet for a door opener ? Hopefully there's no real weight pulling on it.

That is a "new work" outlet box.  It's in the 15amp circuit I ran for the second row of fluorescent lighting.  They're plug in shop lamps.  

Good thing you are so far from me now that I know you have tire equipment. I'm ALWAYS moving tires around on wheels and it gets spendy in a hurry.

Well, if you ever happen to be in the neighborhood.  :)   Same goes for everyone else.  

 



-- Edited by Back in Black on Monday 12th of November 2012 12:39:00 PM

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Keith - Rochester, MN

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My company's system blocks the pics, but it sounds like you're doing a great job. No matter what the space, it will always get filled.

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dashboard wrote:

Thanks for posting your garage project Keith, having done a couple I find it very interesting; always nice to watch and follow someone’s progress so please keep posting. I have garage envy already, I wish I had that height in my garage. What’s your plan for shelving, cabinets, and work bench?



-- Edited by dashboard on Monday 12th of November 2012 09:21:51 AM

 The ceiling height was about the only good thing about the garage.  None of the other places we looked at except for Derek's had enough height for a 4-post lift.

I have the one steel cabinet for chemicals and another two piece wooden thing for odds and ends.  The work bench is from my parent's home in Duluth.  The original home owner must have built it.  It was in the garage and my Mom wanted it gone so I took it.  It's at least 55 years old.  The wood looks petrified.  LOL   I'll post a pic when I clean it off.   Given how cramped it is in there, I may not put up much shelving.  I think I'll put one up over the garage door in the stall my wife uses.  I have over two feet between the garage door and ceiling and it's out of the way.  Should be enough storage for gas cans, oil pans, etc.   Everything else is going to stay in the basement for now.  :(



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Dan Williams wrote:

 Have 3600 sq ft of garage/shop and Cathy had to park outside a couple of winters ago. Did not go over well!Imgonna

 That's just wrong.  LOL



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Back in Black wrote:
The hopper on the machine would only hold one bag so I had to climb up and down from the attic at least 45 times.  It took 8 hours.  What a PITA!

If only you knew someone local you could have called for help... razz



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Dan Williams wrote:

I need a to borrow a couple of things, your tire machine and organizeing skills! I have a lot of space, just never seem to have things where I need them when I need them. Have 3600 sq ft of garage/shop and Cathy had to park outside a couple of winters ago. Did not go over well!Imgonna

 The 2 car attached to the house is for the wife's car. She LETS me park my DD in there too, but hers is in EVERY day...hyper

If I add the 624 sq ft of that to the 2088 in the shop I have about 2700 sq ft. The shop also has 16' ceiling.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lost in the 60s wrote:
Dan Williams wrote:

I need a to borrow a couple of things, your tire machine and organizeing skills! I have a lot of space, just never seem to have things where I need them when I need them. Have 3600 sq ft of garage/shop and Cathy had to park outside a couple of winters ago. Did not go over well!Imgonna

 The 2 car attached to the house is for the wife's car. She LETS me park my DD in there too, but hers is in EVERY day...hyper

If I add the 624 sq ft of that to the 2088 in the shop I have about 2700 sq ft. The shop also has 16' ceiling.

You guys are killing me.     doh

 
 
 


-- Edited by Back in Black on Tuesday 13th of November 2012 04:59:27 PM

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Keith - Rochester, MN

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I guess I am lucky my wife does not care about parking outside. But I try and keep it open for her to park inside in the winter.



-- Edited by 67ss on Tuesday 13th of November 2012 05:01:46 PM

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My wife has the same thing-she gets a space for her car and a path to it and around it no matter what. I get the rest.

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Yup here too... Sheryl gets 1 stall, but it can be appropriated for a limited time with advance notice

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Derek69SS wrote:
Back in Black wrote:
The hopper on the machine would only hold one bag so I had to climb up and down from the attic at least 45 times.  It took 8 hours.  What a PITA!

If only you knew someone local you could have called for help... razz

I wanted to believe me.  I did it during the day.  Figured you'd be working.  Probably should have called in the off chance you took the day off to work on your stuff.  :)



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Hung the last sheet of rock today. Glad that's done. Need to get the other two garage doors insulated.

Garage is a freaking mess but at least the wife can park now.

Any suggestions on how to hide the copper gas line?





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The garage is wider than the end of the house it's attached to. They used 2x6's on the common portion of the wall and 2x4's on the ends extend past the house. I don't know why they couldn't get the framing flush. The result is I have these steps in the wall on both sides where the garage wall meets the house wall. Wasn't sure what to do with it so I taped it as best I could.









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Some damage I have to fix left by the previous owner.





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Some pics of the high lift garage door conversion.













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For the gas pipe, you could cover it with a piece of crown molding, or protect it with 2 pieces of trim board nailed to the walls.

I have the same issue with different wall thicknesses in our 3 season "sun room". The transission from 6-4" takes place in the MIDDLE of one wall...banghead  Couldn't they have spent an extra $10 to frame the remaining 6 feet the same width ????  We have a corner molding over the step. And this was the "Model Home" for the contractor in the neighborhood. The garage was the welcome center and sales office so it is completely finished off and insulated, which is a big bonus, but ALL the knobs and handles on the kitchen cabinets were different styles and colors. One could understand that of a model home except the house was 14 YEARS old when we bought it. None of the previous owners ever changed them...rolleyes



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Where does the gas line run from and to? Where is the shutoff? I do not know what the codes call for but if the line must remain exposed, I would like to see steel pipe used if it was in my home.

I would not hide it behind wood; if it needs to be hidden, I would use steel. You will know its there but the next person might drive a nail through it.

Perhaps one of the club members that works in the field will chime in

However, as Stan has said, I tend to be the safety nut.



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dashboard wrote:

Where does the gas line run from and to? Where is the shutoff? I do not know what the codes call for but if the line must remain exposed, I would like to see steel pipe used if it was in my home.

I would not hide it behind wood; if it needs to be hidden, I would use steel. You will know its there but the next person might drive a nail through it.

Perhaps one of the club members that works in the field will chime in

However, as Stan has said, I tend to be the safety nut.

It comes from the basement by the furnace.  There was a spare nipple capped off and the furnace guy used that to run the copper line into the garage for the unit heater.  It enters the garage near the floor through the baseboard, runs up the corner as show in the picture, into the garage attic and through the ceiling to a shutoff at the heater.  There's a shutoff by the furnace as well.   

If I hide it, I will make sure it's clearly marked. 



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An idea: Get a 10' (or whatever's needed) stick of 1-1/2 angle iron and use it to cover the pipe across the corner. Tack weld a few metal tabs or "L" brackets to it and use plastic anchors or zip-its to secure it to the adjoining walls...

It'd be removeable for service (if needed) and would protect the soft copper from getting whacked by something.

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Making progress slowly but surely. Got one stall pretty much finished. Still need to do the wall behind the workbench. Judy had this huge computer work station thing that she wanted to get rid of when we moved in together. Being the pack rat that I am, I talked her out of it. It's been sitting in the basement collecting dust. After my visit to Kevin's garage, I got an idea. I hung the hutch portion of the workstation on the wall. I'll close the bottom off with another shelf. The rest of the furniture is too big as it is so I'm going to modify it with the circular saw and make a cabinet to go under the hutch next to the balancer.













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Looks great, very neat and bright, love that ceiling height. Big things like your balancer are hard to make fit in, they have a way of demanding their own space, where floor space is at a premium they really suck it up. I have a drill press, band saw, plainer and joiner that do the same.

If that balancer is the low RPM type could you build a platform on wheels to make it mobile then tuck it under a work bench when not in use? Or, build a four sided box with no bottom or back on wheels to roll over the balancer. You could design in additional storage, shelves, drawers, and work surface or tool box storage on top. It would also help protect the machine; in my garage it would become a catchall and eventually have countless things piled on top of it. A box with storage would allow you to recover some floor space by providing storage on top.

We always want to get it done quickly but sometimes it’s better to go slow and discover what works the first time rather than going back and tearing something back apart.

What did you use to insulate your garage doors and where did you get it, even R 8 is better than a standard door?

It really looks impressive I’m looking forward to seeing it.



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dashboard wrote:

Looks great, very neat and bright, love that ceiling height. Big things like your balancer are hard to make fit in, they have a way of demanding their own space, where floor space is at a premium they really suck it up. I have a drill press, band saw, plainer and joiner that do the same.

If that balancer is the low RPM type could you build a platform on wheels to make it mobile then tuck it under a work bench when not in use? Or, build a four sided box with no bottom or back on wheels to roll over the balancer. You could design in additional storage, shelves, drawers, and work surface or tool box storage on top. It would also help protect the machine; in my garage it would become a catchall and eventually have countless things piled on top of it. A box with storage would allow you to recover some floor space by providing storage on top.

We always want to get it done quickly but sometimes it’s better to go slow and discover what works the first time rather than going back and tearing something back apart.

What did you use to insulate your garage doors and where did you get it, even R 8 is better than a standard door?

It really looks impressive I’m looking forward to seeing it.

Balancer and tire machine definitely take up a lot of space.  I think I have them in the best spots now.  The balancer needs to be bolted to the floor.  There's no other place to park it anyway.  If you saw my garage you'd understand.  :)   Interesting idea about covering it with something though. 

Garage door insulation was a kit from Menards.  It's just a long roll of R8 fiberglass batt and all the little fastners.  Better than no insulation I guess which is what I had. 



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I made a very generous offer to let Keith store the tire machine and balancer in my shop, but I don't think he wanted to take advantage of my kindness. razz



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Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN

69 Malibu Pro-Touring stroker LS1-383/T56 - 69 SS396-325/3spd project
Lost in the 60s


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Derek69SS wrote:

I made a very generous offer to let Keith store the tire machine and balancer in my shop, but I don't think he wanted to take advantage of my kindness. razz

 I'd even help move them, since it would put them closer to me....nana



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

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Keith might actually be closer to you than I am by a minute or two.

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Derek Kiefer - Mantorville, MN

69 Malibu Pro-Touring stroker LS1-383/T56 - 69 SS396-325/3spd project
Back in Black


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You guys crack me up.

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Keith - Rochester, MN

1970 El Camino SS 396 L78

'09 Viper SRT-10X Coupe
'09 Car Craft RSE Winner
10.76@133.73
190.0 mph Standing Mile
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This is some heavy a$$ furniture! I had to break it up into three pieces so I could haul it out of the basement.

So this is the main piece that the hutch that is now on the wall sat on. There are two more large pieces to this behemoth. When it was all set up, it formed two complete workstations in an L shape. Anyways, I cut out the center section and bolted the left and right pieces together. I got excited when I put the top on figuring I could just add two legs on the right and leave it cover the balancer. The excitement was short lived when I realized the flaw in my logic. Can you see it?







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Keith - Rochester, MN

1970 El Camino SS 396 L78

'09 Viper SRT-10X Coupe
'09 Car Craft RSE Winner
10.76@133.73
190.0 mph Standing Mile
Back in Black


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Lost in the 60s wrote:
Back in Black wrote:
SShink wrote:

Keith, I'm guessing the countertop hangs too much over the balancer and the tire will hit it when mounted to the balancer hub?

If that's the case, a little trimming on the counter top on that end, and it looks like you are good.  dunno

 Yup.  The offset on a 13" wide wheel is so deep the tire nearly rubs on the balancer.  LOL

 I would cut the left side so it isn't as visible against the wall and shorten it to line up with the right side of the balancer stand to look uniform...dunno

 That's exactly what I planned to do.  There's a routed groove on the underside of the top that lines up with the middle board that's about 3/8" higher than the others which will locate the top exactly where it was originally.  Trim the excess off the left and nail/glue it all back together. 

I still have one other large piece of this thing that I can modify to fit over the balancer it i so choose. 



-- Edited by Back in Black on Saturday 12th of January 2013 02:17:10 PM

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Keith - Rochester, MN

1970 El Camino SS 396 L78

'09 Viper SRT-10X Coupe
'09 Car Craft RSE Winner
10.76@133.73
190.0 mph Standing Mile
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Keith, I'm guessing the countertop hangs too much over the balancer and the tire will hit it when mounted to the balancer hub?

If that's the case, a little trimming on the counter top on that end, and it looks like you are good.  dunno



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Back in Black


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SShink wrote:

Keith, I'm guessing the countertop hangs too much over the balancer and the tire will hit it when mounted to the balancer hub?

If that's the case, a little trimming on the counter top on that end, and it looks like you are good.  dunno

 Yup.  The offset on a 13" wide wheel is so deep the tire nearly rubs on the balancer.  LOL



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Keith - Rochester, MN

1970 El Camino SS 396 L78

'09 Viper SRT-10X Coupe
'09 Car Craft RSE Winner
10.76@133.73
190.0 mph Standing Mile
Lost in the 60s


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Back in Black wrote:
SShink wrote:

Keith, I'm guessing the countertop hangs too much over the balancer and the tire will hit it when mounted to the balancer hub?

If that's the case, a little trimming on the counter top on that end, and it looks like you are good.  dunno

 Yup.  The offset on a 13" wide wheel is so deep the tire nearly rubs on the balancer.  LOL

 I would cut the left side so it isn't as visible against the wall and shorten it to line up with the right side of the balancer stand to look uniform...dunno



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

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1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
dashboard


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Over a year has passed, any changes or lessons learned?

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Back in Black wrote:
SShink wrote:

Keith, I'm guessing the countertop hangs too much over the balancer and the tire will hit it when mounted to the balancer hub?

If that's the case, a little trimming on the counter top on that end, and it looks like you are good.  dunno

 Yup.  The offset on a 13" wide wheel is so deep the tire nearly rubs on the balancer.  LOL

 They make spacers you can get to move a wheel out so that doesnt happen. Also, with some wheels having a different size hole in the middle because of that vehicles axle design, they make different diameter cones to accommodate any wheel you need to balance. Im betting you already have all the proper size cones though.

My only other concern is when you balance a wheel, they throw all sorts of crap thats stuck on the tread everywhere and you will end up getting a nicely painted wall all dirty because of the centrifugal force of the tire being balanced. Anything thats in the path of the tire will get crap thrown onto it, even that nice looking walk in door (plus any vehicles parked near as well).  You will have to clean every tire real well before you balance it, not a huge deal but still a hassle none of the less.



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Chris - Ramsey, MN.

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While you guys were busy arguing about the glass of water. I drank it!

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Cool..

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dashboard wrote:

Over a year has passed, any changes or lessons learned?

 Pay someone to do it?  dunno

 

LOL

 

Need to get if finished asap.   Pouring slab for new detached garage in July.  doh



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Keith - Rochester, MN

1970 El Camino SS 396 L78

'09 Viper SRT-10X Coupe
'09 Car Craft RSE Winner
10.76@133.73
190.0 mph Standing Mile
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