Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

I am tired of having had nothing but bad luck with carbs and fuel pumps for my 64 and decide to go EFI and be done with it.  After reviewing the choices, I went with the avenger EFI setup 550-402 (900 cfm 4 barrel TBI).  I could have gone to multiple port setup but for my goals, I just don't need that extra that it would give over the TBI.  Plus I can swap different manifolds with TBI.  The Avenger ECU is the same as the HP series, just you use a laptop to gain more control over the system.  I will start with the easy hand held controller and then switch over the laptop later.

Here are some initial pics.

What comes in the kit

 

Swapped out the barbed fittings for my AN-6 fittings already in place.  Not required but my fuel lines are AN-6 already. Already had the 1/4 npt male to AN-6 male fittings, so no new cost.

Old carb setup

(John D, that bare wire splice in the middle of the below pic was just a temp thing to check the ground of the new wire harness headlight. The other none attached ground is for the fans, which I am redoing the wiring as the EFI will now turn them off and on at the settings I want. They will be good solid grounds when I am done.)

 

Carb and studs removed. 

New TBI in place.  Tip, the carb studs supplied with the kit are very short.  You cannot run the thick heat insulation gasket per the instructions. I had to put my longer carb studs back on.

 

Steps left

Modify a fuel sender for 5/16" or larger diameter tube return line.  I bought fuel sender (Spectre FG88E)) that has a 3/8" out line and 1/4" return line.  I was able  to un-soldered the 1/4 line easily and plan on expanding the hole to a 3/8" size and soldering in the line.

Run a 3/8" return fuel line back from TBI to the tank. Low pressure line, don't need that fancy line stuff, just a 3/8" rubber hose.

Setup the electric fuel pump and fuel filters line and mount, run wiring for the pump.

Either pull either a header or part of my exhaust and drill and weld in the O2 sensor bung in the collector.

Find a place to mount the ECU.

Plug in the electrical connectors to ECU and throttle body.

Install small body computer controlled HEI (not required but why not if the ECU will manage timing for you.)

 

I'll add more pics as I go. If you break these down into small tasks, it not that hard at all.

 

I swapped out a flat tappet Comp 294XE to a milder roller cam Howards 110245. While producing less peak power, the roller cam bring more power (and massive torque) overall across the rpm range up to about 5600 rpm, then the comp cam wins out. I could roast the tires with any effort.

My problems with the fuel setup and dizzy drove me to frustration and thoughts of just selling the sob.

The TBI has the regulator built in to keep 21 psi at all times with demand and routes the remainder of fuel back to the tank. The return line setup is very easy, so I am not sweating it.

Stan,

More than that. The Holley Avenger EFI 550-402 lists for $2054 at Summit. If you shop around, you can find it lower. I picked it up for $1900 shipped.

I now your thinking ouch but this a pretty complete kit and the ECU can me made to handle alot of stuff if desired for future expansion ( Avenger and HP use the same ECU, Avenger comes also with a hand held controlled versus using a laptop for HP series).

I did look at the swapping out a newer engine as I am doing with my Elky. Unless you get a donor vehicle, like I did for the Elky,  the costs can range greatly.

Engine $500-1500 used (5.3 to 6.0 with about 100K miles.) newer engine, low miles, all aluminum expect to pay more $$$$. Also how complete is the engine...starter, alternator, power steering pump, throttle body, fuel rails, accessories add up fast..
Headers $350-400 ($0 if you can reuse stock manifolds)
Engine Mounts $50-100
Oil Pan $250-$500  ($0 if you can use a stock pan (F-body pan))
Aftermarket Harness $600 - $750, factory engine harness $200
Fuel Lines $100 + for high pressure
Fuel Tank + pump $300-$1000 depending if you want a custom tank, stock pump, etc
ECU $100 (stock factory ECU)
ECU programing  $100 HP tuners license.
O2 sensor (wideband) - $85

plus rework current exhaust. (this all depends on how complete a setup you get from the yards.)

I gave serious though of going to a Mega-squirt DIY and piecing together the parts for a stealth ram but opted with something less learning intensive.

Budget wise
1900 EFI kit
40 Modified fuel sender for return line (RockAuto)
35 Small body computer controlled HEI and coil (U-pull)
25 return line rubber hose (25')
$2000

 

 

 

 

So how did you put it in the filler neck? My tank is already installed.

I was thinking of making a sort of catch around the sock and having the return line feed into that to keep it primed. Otherwise I guess I will find another tank and sump it.

I checked the spectra tanks looks to be promising for future upgrades to higher pressure setups. I am going to try the current setup first and if I have starvation issues, go to them.

Chris,

The 'T' is part of the whole assembly. I will have to look to see if I want to use it with my other engine I am building.

ICK, sounds like you've had a rough time. Glad you're feeling better and back at it. You still have 4 months to git-r-gone.

Some cabin fever progress.

Starter reinstalled - check

Passenger side spark plugs back in - check

Passenger side spark plug wires on - check

Wide band O2 sensor installed - check

Dropped fuel tank for return line in fuel neck - check

Fuel return adapter installed in filler neck. - check

Fuel tank reinstalled - check

Next up:

1) Mount fuel pump and filters
2) Connect the fuel lines to the front.
3) Figure out computer location and mount.
4) Wiring up computer to battery.
5) Wire up fuel pump.
6) Connect harnesses.
7) Complete heater block off plate.
8) Relocated electric fan relays.
9) Finish replacement wire install.

How do you eat an elephant...one bite at a time.

Fuel return line routed, cut to length, AN fitting on and installed.

Put new battery tray in front.

Now to fab up the pump and filter mounting plate.

looks like a good plan.

Knocked a couple more off the list.

Heater block off plate - done.

Find ECU mounting - done.

I did not want to mount in the engine compartment but found there was no real place to mount in the inside of the firewall. That left me with under a seat or in the glove box.

I looked at the glove box and it made of a durable cardboard, so that was out, but I found a nice spot underneath the glove box. 

So I removed the glove box and there is a open area below where the glove box resides and above the AC duct work / linkages. 

I made a flat cardboard template and found that I could slide it straight into the glove box area with enough room for the ECU to mounted to the bottom side that I could get the connections.

Steel sheetmetal with ECU mounted.  I played around with my bead roller I bought and added some flanged sections for rigidity.

 

Mounting Plate installed. I have not reinstalled the glock box yet...it's mouse nasty but should still slip in when I buy a new one.

 

Floor view of the duct hose and ECU

 

Floor view ECU Access with duct removed - the blue knob is a cover port for the USB for programming.

 

 

 

John, you gotta be getting excited to fire it up soon.  Sounds like you are getting close. 

 

After a morning of cleaning, I got some time to get some stuff done.

Need to make a longer distributor cable - Done
String the power harness back to the battery - Done
Wire the fuel pump - Done
Clean up the install of the harnesses - Done
Mount and wire cooling fan relays - Done
Make plug adapter from ECU to fan relays - done

Need to :
Finish replacement car wire harness install
Secure the fuel lines to the frame
Install coil plug power line
Add gas and check for leaks.
Program!

Installed the small body hei coil - ignition wire.
Connected the power on ign / battery lines
tons of ground inside.
Installed knock sensor plug in harness

I think tomorrow, I will be done with mounting the lines
Need to install knock sensor on block (optional)

So close...

I was close enough to fire it up this week even though I still need to put finishing touches. 

My typical problems - Distributor (bad cap, rust inside), timing off a tooth or two and some setup instructions that could need some work.  Alternator was dead (the cord you see goes to a battery charger) (I think it is related to the new wire harness).  Oil pressure gauge does not work nor does the gas gauge.  

Once I got it figured how out to sync the distributor, it was much better behaved.

Best of all, it fires right up even when hot, does not stink like rich pig.  Need to see how it starts cold now.

Quick Load test video

-- Edited by Enganeer on Friday 31st of May 2013 09:35:26 PM

I have put a few miles on now....mainly up and down the highway by my place and around the neighborhood. I put in hotter plugs in (NGK UR4) as the NGK BR6FS were fouling. I noticed this on test drives, it would stumble when getting any load. Using the learn cycle on the computer it easy now after some experience with the system.

Almost done putting drive ability touches on now.

I pulled off my 3" dynomax mufflers that dumped before the rear axle. Way to much reverb with the dynomax but sounded so nasty.   I could actually rattle the garage door when it was up and the car was underneath it.  Swapped out with a reducer 3 to 2-1/2 cones to a a pair of summit cheapies with full mandrel bend 2-1/2 tailpipes.  So much quieter, though I found mice had decided to use them as homes, so I have been spewed a huge amount fiberglass and interior padding when I got it.

 

 

 

-- Edited by Enganeer on Thursday 18th of July 2013 09:16:16 PM