Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Need Tips on Drilling Holes in Sail Panel Area of 66 to Mount the Moldings

John D · 2K+ Club

- I'd put a few layers of "gentle release" tape over the location of the holes needing drilling, covering an inch or two in all directions (don't need a curly-chip spinning out and scratching).

- One thing to be aware of: If the holes were welded shut, the metal will be substantially harder in that area (due to heat). If they were brazed, you might start the hole where you want it (possibly very close to/on the edge of the original hole), but the bit will find the original hole and try and "wander" into it.

- For the .190 holes I'd use a brand new, very sharp bit of the final size needed. Don't try to start small and step up - you're just asking for the bit to grab/wander and possibly tear the sheetmetal or crack the paint.

- For the stainless self-tapper's, measure the root diameter of the screw, and use a bit about .010 to .015 smaller. This will leave enough "meat" for the screw to deform & grab to, but not too much. Stainless is brittle! Carefully run these in by hand, and if they start to bind, back out and give it a little more twist next time in (repeat).

- In either case it probably wouldn't hurt to start the holes by hand - literally - twirling the bit with your fingers, or with a hand crank drill to cut through the tape, paint & primer. This and the tape should prevent a "chunk-out" or "cracking-chip" in the paint. Once they're started you could use a cordless - just be careful when you're nearing "break-through", so you don't bump the chuck against the sheetmetal.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

For drilling holes in sheetmetal, there is no better way than a step-drill bit. Perfectly round holes and no chipped paint.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Thanks for the idea's John and Derek. When checking on the step drills, it looks like some are available with as small as 1/32 increments. Quite a price range. Looks like the titanium or cobalt would be the best as well as the most expensive.

http://www.sjdiscounttools.com/vgp15101.html

or

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/IRW-10231

Harbor Freight has some cheap bits.

-- Edited by jim larson on Friday 9th of December 2011 09:26:38 AM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Jim. Are you refering to the actual Vinyl top trim? Unless im missunderstanding, the fastners that hold those down are not drilled into the body, they are actually welded to the sheet metal using what is essentially a stud gun.

Lost in the 60s · President

Chris R wrote:
Jim. Are you refering to the actual Vinyl top trim? Unless im missunderstanding, the fastners that hold those down are not drilled into the body, they are actually welded to the sheet metal using what is essentially a stud gun.
He doesn't have the studs on his car anymore and will need to use the stainless replacement studs that screw in. I had to use them when I replaced the lower windshield channel on my '66 too.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Jim. Are you refering to the actual Vinyl top trim? Unless im missunderstanding, the fastners that hold those down are not drilled into the body, they are actually welded to the sheet metal using what is essentially a stud gun.
He doesn't have the studs on his car anymore and will need to use the stainless replacement studs that screw in. I had to use them when I replaced the lower windshield channel on my '66 too.

What are to stainless studs? Who would carry them? I have the original retainers ( about 3' by 3/8" and the moldings snap over them. It was my plan to hold these on with SS screws. The kit below is smilar to what I was thinking.

http://www.opgi.com/p/body-moldings-trim/23180/5/G240413.html

My understanding is they were orignally held on by stud similar to the studs that held the windshield clips for the windshield moldings. Although it is my understanding that originaly some of the clips for the windshield moldings were held on by screws along with some held on by studs.

It is my understand a special clips with a stud and a well nut held on the "V" shaped piece. AMK makes a replacement that will work; but not exactly like the originals.

I would like to do what is best, yet use a method that will not damage the paint. No need to have to repaint. Thanks.

-- Edited by jim larson on Friday 9th of December 2011 05:23:50 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Friday 9th of December 2011 05:29:32 PM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Jamie was installing a bunch of these one day when I was over there. He didnt want no part of drilling holes and chose to go the same route the factory went. His car isnt painted so it was an easy decision.

Im not partial either way so I would consider giving Karl a call and see what he says about this since he is a professional body and a 66 guy. He may have a bunch of the stuff you need laying around as well.

Lost in the 60s · President

jim larson wrote:
What are to stainless studs? Who would carry them? I have the original retainers ( about 3' by 3/8" and the moldings snap over them. It was my plan to hold these on with SS screws. The kit below is smilar to what I was thinking.

http://www.opgi.com/p/body-moldings-trim/23180/5/G240413.html
My understanding is they were orignally held on by stud similar to the studs that held the windshield clips for the windshield moldings. Although it is my understanding that originaly some of the clips for the windshield moldings were held on by screws along with some held on by studs.
It is my understand a special clips with a stud and a well nut held on the "V" shaped piece. AMK makes a replacement that will work; but not exactly like the originals.

I would like to do what is best, yet use a method that will not damage the paint. No need to have to repaint. Thanks.

-- Edited by jim larson on Friday 9th of December 2011 05:23:50 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Friday 9th of December 2011 05:29:32 PM

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Jim. Are you refering to the actual Vinyl top trim? Unless im missunderstanding, the fastners that hold those down are not drilled into the body, they are actually welded to the sheet metal using what is essentially a stud gun.
He doesn't have the studs on his car anymore and will need to use the stainless replacement studs that screw in. I had to use them when I replaced the lower windshield channel on my '66 too.

Mitch, are there stainless studs that screw in? Where can you find them? Your last message seemed to miss a response.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
Jamie was installing a bunch of these one day when I was over there. He didnt want no part of drilling holes and chose to go the same route the factory went. His car isnt painted so it was an easy decision.
Im not partial either way so I would consider giving Karl a call and see what he says about this since he is a professional body and a 66 guy. He may have a bunch of the stuff you need laying around as well.

Chris, did they use this type of stud for clips on other moldings, like rocker panel moldings? Sounds like the way to go if somone were also going to repaint.

Lost in the 60s · President

jim larson wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Jim. Are you refering to the actual Vinyl top trim? Unless im missunderstanding, the fastners that hold those down are not drilled into the body, they are actually welded to the sheet metal using what is essentially a stud gun.
He doesn't have the studs on his car anymore and will need to use the stainless replacement studs that screw in. I had to use them when I replaced the lower windshield channel on my '66 too.

Mitch, are there stainless studs that screw in? Where can you find them? Your last message seemed to miss a response.
I made your link live and then couldn't get the page to open. I also looked for the studs I referred to on-line and couldn't find a pic. I then got busy with other stuff and didn't get back to it. Here's a pic of the screw in studs and a link to Ausley's where I got the pic from.
http://www.chevelle.com/1964-1972-Window-Molding-Clip-Studs-P6196C509.aspx

Chris R · 2K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
Chris, did they use this type of stud for clips on other moldings, like rocker panel moldings? Sounds like the way to go if somone were also going to repaint.

Thats about the best way I could describe it as well. I would think a spot welded stud would be stronger then a stud that was drilled and screwed in.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Thanks Mitch & Chris. The SS screws for the windshield molding, look just whats available from AMK products. Are they definitely SS? Ausley probably buys from AMK. Welded studs would be the best method, since no holes, and the molding could be just popped off, leaving the studs and retainers or clips in place. I have seen some original photos of the front windshield clips in place and they show both screws and studs holding the clips on. I think the clips with the screws were on the pillar section, studs along the top, not sure on the bottom. But then again maybe the photos were of what someone thought was original. Guys like Dave Yoder from Yoder Classic Restorations or Jeff Helms would know for sure. Looks like I have lots of time to think this over, since I've heard of guys waiting up to a year for their vinyl top from SMS Auto Interiors.

The link works now when I click on it. Maybe you have a more secure system. Still don't understand how to make it live. Sometimes they show up live, sometimes they don't.

-- Edited by jim larson on Saturday 10th of December 2011 10:23:23 AM

Lost in the 60s · President

The screws replace the studs and if you decided to remove the molding later, they would hold the clip in place, just as a stud would.

Yes, the pillar clips on the windshield trim are screwed on while the top and bottom are studs. I used the screws on the bottom when I replaced the channel and put a dab of body sealer on the threads before install to seal against water seepage and resulting rust.

The factory using the studs versus screws has nothing to do with strength. It was all about speed and it took longer to drill a pilot hole and have a worker line up a clip and screw than to have a jig weld a stud and the worker meerly snap the clip on. There are about 6 clips holding a piece of trim that weighs a few ounces. I wouldn't worry about it blowing off on the road from using screws.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

What color is the V top going to be?

Chris R · 2K+ Club

I would call Karl and ask him what he would do in this situation. I would also post this on Team Chevelle and see what the other guys that have been through this before also say.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
I would call Karl and ask him what he would do in this situation. I would also post this on Team Chevelle and see what the other guys that have been through this before also say.

Researched on TC. The guys there, if they are doing a frame up and repaint they generally weld them on If they are doing a factory correct restoration. I sold a set of original 66 rims to the owner of Yoder Classic restorations in Red Lion, PA. He is doing a factory correct restoration and wanted original rims with the correct code. He is doing a frame up all the way from correct primer to single stage acrylic lacquer. Going over exiting paint they either use the retainers held on with screws for the side. Or some even use the same type of clip/bolt/stamped nut that is used on the "V" shaped piece. The two body shops in town both recommended the screw.

I probably won't get to this until after the Jan meeting, so will probably run it by him.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
What color is the V top going to be?

All you ever see with red is black and a few white tops. They had 3 options in 66, black, white, and beige. Cowl tag shows beige. I have only seen photos of one other 66 with a beige top. None in person. I plan to lay it on the top with moldings and decide from there. I ordered the top because the only place in the country that has the correct beige color and grain with the seam the the right place is SMS. The are very slow and over twice to cost of the other vinyl top suppliers. They think that soon this color may not be available.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

I talked to Karl yesterday about some club stuff and happened to ask him about this. He said the only way you can do this when the surface is already painted is drilling very small holes for accomidating the hardware.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Thanks for running this by Karl. Still a little undecided as to if the original method was welded on studs or screws holding the retainers. Maybe done both ways. Was Jammie working on the sail panel molding of a chevelle or a windshield area?

Chris R · 2K+ Club

jim larson wrote:
Thanks for running this by Karl. Still a little undecided as to if the original method was welded on studs or screws holding the retainers. Maybe done both ways. Was Jammie working on the sail panel molding of a chevelle or a windshield area?

Jamie was doing the sail panel area at the time. From how I understood Karl, there are small holes you drill and the studs have small screws holding them in place like you said. Very, very small screws that you use a small screw driver with.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
jim larson wrote:
Thanks for running this by Karl. Still a little undecided as to if the original method was welded on studs or screws holding the retainers. Maybe done both ways. Was Jammie working on the sail panel molding of a chevelle or a windshield area?
Jamie was doing the sail panel area at the time. From how I understood Karl, there are small holes you drill and the studs have small screws holding them in place like you said. Very, very small screws that you use a small screw driver with.

Chris, you might want to check this post out on Team Chevelle.

http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=370739

Appear that screws, not stud, held on the retainers for the side molding.

Was Jamie working on stud for the clips on the rear windshield molding?

-- Edited by jim larson on Sunday 18th of December 2011 11:41:15 AM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Lots of good info in that post. My car isnt a vinyl top car so I cant really comment on that.

Not the rear winshield molding, he was doing the sides.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
Lots of good info in that post. My car isnt a vinyl top car so I cant really comment on that.
Not the rear winshield molding, he was doing the sides.

What year, a 66 chevelle? Jeff and Doug along with Dale Mc Intousch are probably the most knowledgeable 66 chevelles guys.

When you say sides, are you refering to the vinyl top moldings of a 66? Maybe Jammie is doing what he thinks is best not what was done at the Fisher Body Plants.

-- Edited by jim larson on Sunday 18th of December 2011 07:11:36 PM