Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

Chris R · 2K+ Club

RE: BACK IN THE CARS APART CLUB

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Still getting some things done, but struggling with bad parts. I ordered a master cylinder from a well-known vender (in a different time zone) along with several other parts. When the package arrived, there was no master cylinder so I call the well-known vender. I got the third degree from the guy on the phone “we sent it, it must be there.” Well it was not there, this was the first sign of the part from hell.

A week latter, they sent it out along with some other back ordered parts, more shipping cost. John (the magician) D. and I bench bleed it, as we where doing so we both commented on what we thought was a lack of flow in the aft reservoir. After installation during bleeding and testing our suspicions where confirmed, poor to no rear brake action.

I picked up a brake cylinder at O Reilly’s, John ™ D and I installed it today and wala, rear brakes. Sent the bad one back to the east coast, more shipping cost, so I now have $30+ in shipping cost for a bad part

Good news, Angie knew JD was going to be a bachelor for the next couple of days. She had some NY strip steak’s ready for the grill on a great March day, how cool is that.

Thanks again JD.

John D · 2K+ Club

Other than the PITA of it all, and dealing with brake fluid (don't ask Kevin about brake fluid...) it wasn't too bad of a job. We moved about 1-1/2 quarts of fluid through the system, and now know there is 100% fresh/clean juice all the way out to each wheel.

I'll have to give you a certificate of licensing for the pickle jar bleeder

Lost in the 60s · President

East coast ?? I would like to know who is well known out there. I buy most of my brake parts from In-Line in MI until I made the mistake of buying a kit from CPP. I still need to get an authentic looking master from In-Line and sell the generic piece from CPP.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Some good venders out east. I've had good luck with Hinshaw, long island corvette and classic muscle. I am thinking this is the one with the UP in it.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Yup!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Little things take a lot of time but I had to incorporate some wood working so I jigged up a brake bleeding jig just for John D. Then I copied his vacuum bottle, with some improvements I might add.

This truck had the reverse interlocking column. In order to shut off the car the shifter had to be in reverse, then when the key is turned off the column locks the wheel. That linkage came out when I replaced the M22 with the RS500. I needed something to hold the column in position, my tach is mounted to that part of the column and it still needs to be in the correct position to turn the key to off.

I made a piece of linkage out of 5/16 rod stock about six inches long with four bends in it. It now holds the column in the correct spot. Just need to install a small grommet and its done.

Also made repaires to wiring in several areas this week. So aside from installing the seat the truck is back togeather.

Got the wheels back on, thanks again to Mike for the use of his rollers.

I ordered an new SS emblem for the grill the one that came was much larger than the one that was on it. Turns out the 72 has a different (larger) emblem and my 72 Elky came with a 71 SS (smaller) emblem. I have seen several of these 71-72 quirks on this first week of October 1971 production Elky.

Now it's time to move on to the next phase, more power!

-- Edited by dashboard on Saturday 17th of March 2012 07:52:52 PM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

My one and only expierence with them wasnt very good either.

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
Yup!
I finally figured it out !!! Ground Round... I read enough negative things about them over the years on Team Chevelle and Camaro to never have bought anything there.

Tim H · Mega Poster

I've had real good luck with NPD. I've sent stuff back after having it for a year and they refunded me.

It sure is looking good Kevin

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I don’t want to turn this into a vender bashing trend, their all selling the same stuff. I have bought stuff from all those listed above and more with a few deviations on any given day the prices are competitive.

I keep a running wish list and keep an eye out for sales. Most painful part is getting the wrong or bad part, it happens, then having to return it, shipping really expensive; in some cases more than the cost of the part.

Ok, nuff said about that. Back to work got some things done this week stand by for some updates.

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:
I don’t want to turn this into a vender bashing trend, their all selling the same stuff. I have bought stuff from all those listed above and more with a few deviations on any given day the prices are competitive.

I keep a running wish list and keep an eye out for sales. Most painful part is getting the wrong or bad part, it happens, then having to return it, shipping really expensive; in some cases more than the cost of the part.

Ok, nuff said about that. Back to work got some things done this week stand by for some updates.
It is informative to know others experiences with vendors. I understand about faulty parts from any one of them but your experience with the "third degree" and having to pay return shipping is complete BS. If their business is that brisk in this economy that they can afford to lose current and potential customers over their attitude, then so be it. I don't need to get involved with that.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Tim H wrote:
I've had real good luck with NPD. I've sent stuff back after having it for a year and they refunded me.

I use NPD most of the time. Had my first bad part last week with a headlight switch that had horrible internal threads where the headlight switch nut threads in. Went to O'Reilly's for a replacement, and it was a much beefier design, and the threads were fine. I still need to call NPD and return the bad one.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

The last phase has started, produce more power with better street and curb manners. But first I need to replace the rear seal; I took the pan off this 24 year old, 2500 mile BB and it is very clean. Found some interesting things, one of which is, the oil pump pickup tube was brazed to the oil pump by GM.

With some luck I’ll get the heads back this week. My goal is to have it dyno’ed and ready to go back in before the end of the month.

Craig, this stand of yours is outstanding; even with the block on it I can rotate it 360 degrees with one hand and a beer in the other, way cool….

SShink · 3K+ Club

And with 4 bolt mains too!

jim larson · 2K+ Club

My oil pick up tube is also brazed by Mitch. You sure it was done by GM?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Jim, in August of 1988 I and a friend dragged this motor on its wooden pallet into the back of a pickup truck off a loading dock in Chicago, IL and installed it in my Elky. The lower end has not been touched until I removed the pan this week.

Today JD and I replaced the rear seal; after removing the oil pump we realized it is not brazed, it is welded, there are some other interesting things in there as well.

After replacing, the rear seal I found my torque wrench only go’s to 80 ft lbs, off to Sears tomorrow for a new torque wrench and bring it to 105 ft lbs.

Lost in the 60s · President

Long drive but I have a Snap-On that goes to 250, if you want to use it.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Kevin, I think mine goes to 150-200 ft. lbs. if you need it.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Thanks for the offer Mitch; I thought I had the capability to do what I needed to do today. I want/need to have that capability, I’ll pick one up tomorrow at Sears.

Pushrod · Active Member

Great im glad its works for you!

Tim H · Mega Poster

Kevin

It looks even better in person. Too darn bad I forgot the paperwork you so kindly copied for me. If you come to the meeting maybe you could bring it with you.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Thanks Tim and thanks for the tips as well.

Not sure if I can make the meeting this weekend, we have other things going on, I will put your data sheets in the mail this morning.

I did pick up a really nice 50-250 ft lbs toqure wrench at Northern today for $80.00.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Making some progress, slowly but moving forward, sorry for the long read; I broke the engine down and delivered it to Competition Engine. Randy installed the cam after having it ground to his recommended specifications (see pix) along with the lifters. He then measured for pushrod length ordered and installed them. The heads where reworked and setup for the new springs.

He is a meticulous engine builder; in the past when ordering valve springs, he has seen large variations in spring compression values. On one Friday, he packed up his spring compression tester and went to his supplier in Minneapolis where he tested springs until he had the 16 sets he was pleased with.

Meanwhile I cleaned and painted small parts finished prepping under the hood and upgraded the new distributor. I installed a Pertronix III, reasoning the rev limiter might not be a bad thing for an old guy driving a stick shift car. Haven’t missed a gear yet, but I‘m not sure these hydraulic lifters will take the abuse the old solids would.

Then the engine came home, I completed assembly, finished painting and then I had to make the really big decision, orange or chrome valve covers.

Gearlube stopped by yesterday and we loaded bright orange BB and delivered it back to CE where it sits waiting for dyno time. I need to be heading off to the farm for planting when the weather cooperates so my departure date is a moving target. If we could get it done be for I leave for the farm that’s great, doing so however would require someone else cancelling there dyno time or we will run it when I return.

So here’s the question. 990 rectangular port open chamber heads with 2.19 intakes and 1.88 exhaust valves, you can see the cam specs, the lower end is bulletproof. First runs will be with a 750 Edelbrock and then a 750 Holley, the rev limiter initial setting will be 5700.

What do you think it will make?

Lost in the 60s · President

525hp with the Orange valve covers and 535 with the CHROME....

You GOTTA leave the chrome ones on....it looks waaaaaaaaaay better.

gearlube · Active Member

I vote 504 hp 525 trq

67ss · 1K+ Club

I'm guessing 425 horse and 450-475 tq. Not enough cam there to make 500 horse. But I could be surprised.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

I go with 480 hp, 510 ft-lbs torque

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
525hp with the Orange valve covers and 535 with the CHROME....
Orange or chrome valve covers.

I forgot to mention, it will be run with 2” headers, I don’t want to be screwing around with the paint burn in on the freshly painted exhaust manifolds.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

460HP and 520 tq.

Tim H · Mega Poster

I guess 485 HP 510 tq.
It sure looks good so does the engine bay. Nice work detailing it.

I agree on the chrome covers. They finish it off well.

OscarZ · Mega Poster

440 HP 515TQ

I vote for the Orange valve covers.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

SShink wrote:
Chris R wrote:
Valve covers in 72 were originally painted and not chrome. So I go with orange.
The intake manifold was orange as well to be totally back to original. I'm sure Rob's is on his survivor '72 from what I remember seeing last Fall on the cruise.
So, it's the usual debate... build it back to 100% stock for the purists, or build it the way you like it and damn the torpedoes.

Thats the way I have always been too. Im a build it the way I like it guy but then, I dont have a numbers or stock appearing car. Ive always been more of a hot rodder but had my car been the stock or original in appearance, I like Chris P's suggestion of using the stock valve covers if the stock air cleaner is used.

-- Edited by Chris R on Friday 13th of April 2012 03:46:11 PM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Valve covers in 72 were originally painted and not chrome. So I go with orange.

67ss · 1K+ Club

If you are keeping the stock air cleaner in the picture I vote for the orange valve covers.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris R wrote:
Valve covers in 72 were originally painted and not chrome. So I go with orange.

The intake manifold was orange as well to be totally back to original. I'm sure Rob's is on his survivor '72 from what I remember seeing last Fall on the cruise.

So, it's the usual debate... build it back to 100% stock for the purists, or build it the way you like it and damn the torpedoes.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I’m not a purest, but I have tried to keep the body and interior original. I like the stock look of orange covers but I’m not sure now if the air cleaner in the pix is correct (I’ll need to see Bob’s) it will not fit my Edelbrock or Holley carb’s without using an adapter. With the adapter it looks like a top hat on an elephant, really looks bad on the engine stand, maybe it will look different in the engine bay; the chrome covers will be on for the dyno run as Mitch says, they make more power.

Had John D’s friend in Anoka re-core my original radiator Monday. Interesting shop if you stop by in the afternoon you can catch up on the soaps if you wear a hearing aid you won‘t even need it.

My forty-year-old radiator was 50% plugged four rows where down to two; amazingly, I did not have any over heating problems. I went with an upgraded core, more tubes and fins: Tom is not cheap, but he does very nice work and you can catch up on the soaps.

I wanted excellent cooling for a driver in hot weather because my next purchase today was an A/C compressor upgrade kit.

http://www.classicautoair.com/Chevelle_El_Camino_Air_Conditioning_Chevy_AC.html#engine

I have replaced the A-6 compressor each of the last two years for slinging oil on the hood and drivers inner fender. The kit provides a better operating system and takes a significant amount of weight off the front end.

Bob could you post pix of your air cleaner?

-- Edited by dashboard on Friday 13th of April 2012 08:14:18 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

You need an air cleaner like this one. It works in conjunction with the chrome covers to produce more power and complete the "LOOK".

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I like that look Mitch, very clean; I see one in the future.

If I get this thing back on the road I have some remote temp sensors I am going to place under the hood in different places to measure the air temp entering the carb as compared to the outside air temp.

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
Bob could you post pix of your air cleaner?

-- Edited by dashboard on Friday 13th of April 2012 08:14:18 PM

Kevin, I think you are looking for Rob aka Robredy on the forum. His has the orange survivor '72 SS with the 402 and 4 speed. I don't know if it's the same air cleaner as the 454.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

I’ll go with the open element that Mitch showed, I'll hang this one on the wall next to the orange valve covers. For a non induction hood it’s probably the most efficient. It’s hard to make this look stock with the current intake manifold and now with the A/C mod I’m just looking for clean and effective under the hood.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Kevin. Are you looking for a dual snorkel 71-72 big block air cleaner? There is a guy in the Team Chevelle member classifieds that is selling a complete one for what I would think is a pretty good price. 150 bucks.

If your not a member there I can see if I can get you guys in touch if you want. He posted several photos of the item too, looks like its in pretty good shape too.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

This one http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379434&highlight=air+cleaner

Thanks for the effort Chris, however an A/C (RPO C60) car or truck would have a single snorkel air cleaner the one on the driver’s side conflicts with the A/C mounting brackets. But that is a nice one at a good price, I have thought about buying a duel snorkel and removing one of the snorkels to go with the orange valve covers.

-- Edited by dashboard on Saturday 14th of April 2012 07:36:39 AM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
This one http://www.chevelles.com/forums/showthread.php?t=379434&highlight=air+cleaner
Thanks for the effort Chris, however an A/C (RPO C60) car or truck would have a single snorkel air cleaner the one on the driver’s side conflicts with the A/C mounting brackets. But that is a nice one at a good price, I have thought about buying a duel snorkel and removing one of the snorkels to go with the orange valve covers.

-- Edited by dashboard on Saturday 14th of April 2012 07:36:39 AM

Thats right. I forgot you have AC and that air cleaner wouldnt work. What about the one you blasted at Craigs?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

The one I blasted at Craig’s I now think was a 71-72 402 air cleaner the one on TC looks to be larger in diameter more than likely for a 454. Those air cleaners were used on Q-Jet carbs installed on cast iron manifolds and will not fit Holley or Edelbrock carbs without the use of an adapter. The GM/ Winter's aluminum high rise close plenum manifold I have was designed for a Holley carb.

The air cleaner I’ve seen used most often used is a cowl induction air cleaner without the seal kit and top flange assembly installed, looks a little odd but it fits the Holley; at least that’s what is shown in the assembly manual.

Having said all that, the more I learn the less I understand, what is clear is that GM dumped a lot of left over 71 stuff into early production 72s, I believe because they knew the 73 would be a completely new body. Add to this the fact that my engine is a later crate engine kind of makes everything get a little fuzzy.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
525hp with the Orange valve covers and 535 with the CHROME....
You GOTTA leave the chrome ones on....it looks waaaaaaaaaay better.

Step forward and take a bow Mitch, I think you are the closest it must have been the chrome valve covers.

It was a nice cool day for a dyno run. The run below (see pix) done with a ‘shop carb’ then we did a run with my 750 Edelbrock and the numbers dropped to 530 T and 504 HP, still respectable.

When it has the exhaust manifolds, air cleaner and is back in the engine compartment, it will be below the RS 500’s torque and HP limits of 500/500.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Holy crap that is impressive. You must be very happy with the results.

Lost in the 60s · President

Thank You, thank you......thank you veeeeeery much.

That's a nice cam !!! Moves the shift point down from 6500 to 5300, where torque and hp about meet. A drop of 500 rpm with a gear change will put you at 4800 where the torque is about max at 542 pounds. No reason to wind it up any higher than that anymore. It should come off idle nicely with no slipping the clutch to keep it in a power band either. You're gonna like this combo. Probably wanna get rid of that Mustang now.....

Tim H · Mega Poster

Fantastic!!!! Tire burning action is in your future.

And for Mitch being a "Guess your age and weight" at the fair should be in your future..

Hey Mitch take a guess at the Powerball numbers and post them here!

Lost in the 60s · President

Tim H wrote:
Fantastic!!!! Tire burning action is in your future.

And for Mitch being a "Guess your age and weight" at the fair should be in your future..

Hey Mitch take a guess at the Powerball numbers and post them here!
The 525 guess was based on experience with an LS6 and the fact they were 450-60 out of the crate.
If I could guess lottery numbers, I would've won the 640 million Mega Millions game a couple weeks ago and we'd all have all the parts we need to complete our cars. I could probably even come close to affording your '69 when it's done...