Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

John D · 2K+ Club

RE: '96 LT1/4L60e Conversion is underway!

bowtie · Secretary

I lucked out with my 4L60. It was from a suburban, and I "borrowed" the extension housing from a core that I was giving back, so I actually have 2 mounting points.

John D · 2K+ Club

That's how my setup will be. There'll be the mount pad on the case (just forward of the tailcone surface), and a mount pad on the tailcone itself.

Once I get the thing up & in there I'll determine which would be easiest to use, by modifying my existing crossmember.

(Probably the tailcone location, but I'll have to make extensions to the "horns" on the framerails. Unlike the later models, with a long framerail mount pad ((for multiple trans choices) there's only 1 set of holes, and just enough plate for the crossmember to rest on. There's no extra to slide rearward/drill new holes)

Enganeer · Mega Poster

I have a 65 elky crossmember if you want so you don't have to modify yours.

John D · 2K+ Club

PM sent!

Enganeer · Mega Poster

PM replied.

John D · 2K+ Club

Got the O2 bungs in today's mail. Everything under the car is unbolted & waiting.

On the top end all that's left is motor-mount through bolts, PS hoses, pull radiator/tranny cooler... then yank. (I'm sure I've forgotten something, which will become self-evident after a "WTF is hanging up/snagging/OhSh*tDon'tBreakOffBeforeIGrabATool" statement when it's 1/2 in - 1/2 out of the engine bay...)

I just realized how much cumulative work (little add-ons or changes) I've put into this thing now that I'm taking it apart again... and most of it will be null with the new setup!

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, at almost the last minute I remembered the solenoid wires... biggrin

Had some help too!

Now I'm a charter member of the "Car's Apart" club!

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 17th of October 2010 0941 PM

Enganeer · Mega Poster

What the he!! is on the front grill! We will need to talk.

bowtie · Secretary

might as well wreck a ford one.

I like how she dressed up to help! Gotta talk to her about proper garage attire, I bet that doesn't go well with work boots.

-- Edited by bowtie on Sunday 17th of October 2010 10:28:30 PM

John D · 2K+ Club

Bryan nailed it... why goober up a good fender cover?? (as for attire, I shanghai'd my helper from yardwork to help me roll the engine/trans away from the car. She was "swing" control.)

Now to scrub up & detail the engine compartment, a little paint here and there, then stuff the LT1 in.

John D · 2K+ Club

Major progress today! The LT1 & 4L60 is IN!!

Spent a few hours this morning getting the trans bolted to the engine, attaching the tranny cooler lines, and making a few routing changes on the harness.
(Running headers put the cooler lines a little too close for comfort to the collector, so I had to trim about an inch off the end and re-flare, and the solenoid & knock sensor wire needed re-routing for the same reason).
It went in without a hitch. The trans is a bit wider in the pan area, but cleared the exhaust (whew!) with room to spare.

Mounted the PS reservoir & cooler, got those lines bolted down, then attacked the radiator. Layed the fans in place and sat and stared at it for about 20 minutes. The fan donor car had these nifty lugs molded in the radiator end-caps. Some square tubing, sheet stock, brazing rod and the gas-axe yielded the mounting tabs seen in the pics.
(Once I double check the final fit, things will get cleaned up & painted).

SShink · 3K+ Club

Looks right at home in the engine bay John! Kind of like sliding into home plate....(reference to the air cleaner biggrin

)! LOL

Is that your engine hoist slider or did you rent it? If it's yours, I may want to borrow it in the near future when I pull my engine/trans.

What's next to hook up?

John D · 2K+ Club

PM sent.

Lots of small to medium jobs!

*Radiator - Check fit, clean up/paint, and final mount.
*Trans Cooler - Fabricate brackets and mount behind the grille. Make new inter-connect lines from the unit to the GM lines and radiator.
*Engine Oil Cooler - Fabricate brackets and mount behind the grille. Make new inter-connect lines from the unit to the GM lines and radiator.
*Computer - Figure out some way to mount it in the void behind the driver's side headlights & wheelwell. (factory location on a Caprice/Roadmonster)
*Throttle Linkage - adapt the '65 mechanical rods & levers to cable type.
*Trans Crossmember - determine which mount to use (tailcone or case) and modify crossmember to work.
*Exhaust - Finalize locations for O2 sensors, drop the X-pipe and weld bungs in place.
*Wiring - Cut LT1 wiring into '65 harness.

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 24th of October 2010 07:44:54 AM

Enganeer · Mega Poster

NICE!!!

SShink · 3K+ Club

John D wrote:

PM sent.

Lots of small to medium jobs!

*Radiator - Check fit, clean up/paint, and final mount.
*Trans Cooler - Fabricate brackets and mount behind the grille. Make new inter-connect lines from the unit to the GM lines and radiator.
*Engine Oil Cooler - Fabricate brackets and mount behind the grille. Make new inter-connect lines from the unit to the GM lines and radiator.
*Computer - Figure out some way to mount it in the void behind the driver's side headlights & wheelwell. (factory location on a Caprice/Roadmonster)
*Throttle Linkage - adapt the '65 mechanical rods & levers to cable type.
*Trans Crossmember - determine which mount to use (tailcone or case) and modify crossmember to work.
*Exhaust - Finalize locations for O2 sensors, drop the X-pipe and weld bungs in place.
*Wiring - Cut LT1 wiring into '65 harness.

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 24th of October 2010 07:44:54 AM

Knowing you John, it will all be done by next weekend!

Enganeer · Mega Poster

John,

Your ruining the curve by getting this done so fast. Though it did give me motivation to finish my 64 back together and running so I can start on my LS1 conversion for the Elky.

Now if Derek would start blazing a trail, I will know the pitfalls. confuse

Derek69SS · Founding Member

Holy crap John, you make it look easy!

I tore the front end off mine yesterday... going to make difficult job even more complicated and expensive by installing Vintage Air and smoothing the firewall while the engine is out.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well.. y'all have to remember that I've had the entire summer to accumulate parts, clean & paint stuff, and get "sub-assemblies" ready. (I was pretty much as far as I could go without having the engine/trans in the car for final fit-up).

Working on the trans cooler mounts tonight. Gotta scrounge some sheet-goods to make brackets from tomorrow.

John D · 2K+ Club

I'm getting a lesson in "medium" pressure fittings, I'll tell ya!

It's been real fun getting the '96 trans cooler and engine oil coolers & lines adapted to fit the '65 radiator and my aux oil coolers! The guys at Pertek have been very patient!

bwild70ss396 · Active Member

Looks good John!

John D · 2K+ Club

The trans fluid & oil cooler plumbing are finally done! The brackets weren't too hard to make, once I got hold of some material.

The goofy metric O-ring fittings on the cooler inlet/outlet were the problem... nobody makes "stub" pipes for them. You can buy the complete line assembly as a replacement part, but there isn't one for a '96 LT1 in a '65 El Camino (if you know what I mean confuse

).
I wound up using automotive A/C pipes! They had the correct swedged end (for O-rings), and I just put the metric nuts (for the cooler) on the pipes. Worked slick. Then I made a bulkhead fitting to adapt the 1/2" cooler lines to the 3/8" lines to the filter adapter.

The trans cooler wasn't cooperative either.The cooler has 3/8" fittings, and the '65 radiator has 5/16". Nobody makes a 3/8 to 5/16 reducing coupler for inverted double flares. Had to make these too... out of hydraulic line couplers.

John D · 2K+ Club

Hey! I finally found a use for those useless "auger" style/left-hand twist bolt extractors that don't remove broken off bolts! (Doesn't everyone have a set?!)

When I changed out the steering box for a fast-ratio unit a few years back, I had to install a set of adapters in the inlet/outlet ports. They convert the metric o-ring line bores to the old style flare fittings (Lee Mfg.). They're little aluminum insert gizmos that you tap in place into the bores of the steering box.

Now that I'm using late-model hoses & lines I need the o-ring style seats, and had to remove the inserts.
- You don't want to drill them out and get chips into the gearbox...
- They are an interference or press fit, you have to hammer/tap them in...
- You can't get a hook tool or something under and pry them out...

The 1/4" size auger-extractor worked perfect! Clipped it into a vise-grip and with a left-hand twist & a little upward pressure they popped right out! Didn't mangle them up too badly either. The inserts could be still be re-used after running a drill through the hole to ream out the extractor marks.

-- Edited by John D on Friday 5th of November 2010 08:04:10 PM

Chris R · 2K+ Club

John D wrote:

Hey! I finally found a use for those useless "auger" style/left-hand twist bolt extractors that don't remove broken off bolts! (Doesn't everyone have a set?!)

When I changed out the steering box for a fast-ratio unit a few years back, I had to install a set of adapters in the inlet/outlet ports. They convert the metric o-ring line bores to the old style flare fittings (Lee Mfg.). They're little aluminum insert gizmos that you tap in place into the bores of the steering box.

Now that I'm using late-model hoses & lines I need the o-ring style seats, and had to remove the inserts.
- You don't want to drill them out and get chips into the gearbox...
- They are an interference or press fit, you have to hammer/tap them in...
- You can't get a hook tool or something under and pry them out...

The 1/4" size auger-extractor worked perfect! Clipped it into a vise-grip and with a left-hand twist & a little upward pressure they popped right out! Didn't mangle them up too badly either. The inserts could be still be re-used after running a drill through the hole to ream out the extractor marks.

-- Edited by John D on Friday 5th of November 2010 08:04:10 PM

Those inserts could come in handy in the future if you wanted to use them yourself or sell them to someone else in the club. They work great for doing the Jeep Grand Cherokee upgrade. Dont throw them out. Not that you would.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

It is better to Tig the bungs in place on the exhaust

John D · 2K+ Club

Made some more progress tonight...

Fab'd up some brackets and got the air filter intake box & engine computer mounted. Once this was done I was able to mock up and make the offset/elbow needed to go between the MAP sensor and the intake.

Had to relocate the horns deeper into the void (behind the headlights), and remount the horn relay, but the air box tucked up nicely in the spot where the washer jug used to reside.
Now to find a spot for the washer jug... confuse

I'll post pics soon.

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 7th of November 2010 10:23:51 PM

SShink · 3K+ Club

John D wrote:

Made some more progress tonight...

Fab'd up some brackets and got the air filter intake box & engine computer mounted. Once this was done I was able to mock up and make the offset/elbow needed to go between the MAP sensor and the intake.

Had to relocate the horns deeper into the void (behind the headlights), and remount the horn relay, but the air box tucked up nicely in the spot where the washer jug used to reside.
Now to find a spot for the washer jug...

I'll post pics soon.

-- Edited by John D on Sunday 7th of November 2010 10:23:51 PM

John, it's starting to sound like 5 pounds of stuff in a 3 pound bag! Move one thing... and another thing pops out somewhere else! hmm

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

You need to loan Chris that magic wand of yours so he can get his on the road next summer..!

Nice work pal. I wonder what it's like to have a washer jug? I'm still dreaming of a functional speedometer...

John D · 2K+ Club

Here's the pics...
The computer is tucked under the airbox, offset into the "void" behind the headlights. I had to add a curved offset piece to the factory washer jug mount to fit the wheelwell.

All of this stuff had room to spare in the Roadie/Caprice engine bay, which was about a foot wider (each side!) and another 6" or so to the rad support. Trying to cram it all in a smaller space has been a challenge - and making it still service-able!

SShink · 3K+ Club

Lookin' good John! You have a knack for making things look 'factory' under the hood.

John D · 2K+ Club

One of the things that really bugs me about hot rods is if the builder doesn't stick true to the "theme" of the build. If the lines/hoses are stainless braid, then ALL of 'em should be braided - not 3... a chrome oil pan makes no sense if there's not other chrome "tin", etc.

My objective is to make this look as if the "skunkworks" guys at GM plopped a late-model powertrain into a '65. Stock (or stock appearing biggrin

) parts whenever possible, and making it look like it was designed to be there.

The guys at NAPA got a chuckle at my expense yesterday. Tuesday night I spend about 2 hours online looking at radiator hoses... 85+ pages of 'em! I was looking for a hose with a bunch of wierd bends in it, to mate the engine to the '65 radiator. I came up with about 10 part numbers. Anyone ever go to the parts store and buy $200 worth of radiator hoses?? confuse

Well, one of the 10 gave me the right combination of bends, and with one splice I was able to route the hose out of the water-neck, around the air intake pipe, and to the radiator. (trust me, I saved the tag off the hose!!). Again, stock parts I can get anywhere, and it looks like it belongs there. I'll be returning the other 9 today.

bwild70ss396 · Active Member

Looks like a nice and clean job! I have been starting to get that one thing effects the other deal also. Mostly on the rear end so far.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, the "topside" is just about complete! The other day I finished routing the LT1 engine harness through the firewall, and mounting the fuse & relay box to the fenderwell.
After the meeting Craig & I went to Harbor Freight and cruised the aisles. They had a little air-powered reciprocating hacksaw on sale for $17 (no blades included, a pack of 5 is $7!!... 40% of the tool cost confuse

). Even if this cheapo only lasted long enough to do this job, it will save me hours in comparison to the alternative methods.

After making a pop-case cardboard template of the hole I needed, and marking the firewall, I fired up my new toy. This little saw worked like a dream. A pilot hole at each corner (for the needed radius) and in about 4 minutes I had a perfect opening. A couple of holes for the hold-down screws and it was in.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I just pulled mine out on Monday. biggrin

John D · 2K+ Club

(Derek, you left yourself soooo wide open..... but this is a family site aww

)

Today is "our" Thanksgiving. I've been on the company leash this week (on-call furious

), so we bumped our gathering to anytime after 11:59:59am today. So I had all day yesterday to putz.

Got the heater hoses done yesterday, which completes the work on the topside (ok, the engine bay domelight is dangling by a wire, but it was part of the harness and the hood's still off... 1 screw when the hood is back on).

Rolled under it to start imagineering the crossmember mods I'll need to do. As it turns out - NONE!! biggrin

The original P-glide rubber mount bolts up perfectly to the case mounting pad on the 4L60. This mount pad is about 2" aft of a PG or TH350 pad. There is enough length on the framerail flanges! I just have to drill 1 hole (each side) in a new location on the end of the crossmember. Once I get the crossmember nailed in place I can take accurate measurements and get the driveshaft shortened.

The exhaust is going to need a minor tweak though. When I welded up/built the exhaust I had things tucked up very tight to the undercarriage because this car sits so dang low. With the crossmember moving rearward 2", it now hits the pipes at a coupling. I'm going to have to "oval" the pipes a little bit confuse

at this point to gain clearance. Not a big deal, as I have to drop the X-pipe assy. to weld in the O2 bungs.

Dave Seitz · Mega Poster

Sounds like this is going to look good and work great.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Pics John, pics! I know you get in a groove and don't think about grabbing the camera, but we all want to see your handywork! biggrin

John D · 2K+ Club

How many calories does typing burn off... confuse

The first 2 pics are the bulkhead connector. Sometime in the car's past there was dealer/aftermarket A/C installed, and I had these nice 1-1/8 holes in the firewall below the heater box. I fabbed a cover-plate for this awhile ago. I needed a relatively flat area about 2 x 3 for the bulkhead connector. This spot fell over one of the holes. It's about the only place on the firewall that's flat & allows clearance.

The next pics are of the now "busy" passenger wheelhouse. Before this swap started there was the battery and a clip for the heater hoses! Now we have battery, puke-tank, PS reservoir, PS cooler, and fuse & relay box. All of this stuff is mounted on custom brackets, either spot welded to the wheelhouse, or on trap-nuts.

The trans mount was a welcome surprise. (The goofy bolt spacers are because the original bolts are about a foot long, shouldered for about 10mm, and I don't have any metric crap in stock at home - they'll do for mock-up) This is a new mount for a PG/TH-350 and it lines up perfectly. The next pic shows the frame flange and crossmember. The two center holes are the original mount location. I'm in the aft-most hole (with a bolt) and need to drill the crossmember to fit the 2nd bolts in an original hole.

Here's the exhaust clearance Clarence issue. The crossmember used to be in front of this coupling, with about 1/8" of wiggle room. Now it falls dead-smack in the center. I'll mark it and when I do the O2 bungs heat it up, and give it a little "squeeze" in the vise.

The last shot is an undercarriage shot. The bottle jack was used to hold up the trans while I was monkeying around with the mount.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Looks good John. You need to get rid of that Ford blue oil filter though!!! biggrin

Chris R · 2K+ Club

It looks like an AC Delco filter. They are that color blue.

John D · 2K+ Club

Some more progress pics... After marking my clearance issue points, and double checking the O2 sensor locations (for clearance and removal tool swing/access) I got the X-pipe assy. out from under the car. A little heat with the gas-axe and some love taps with a 2-pounder furious

and the top of the pipe was flattened out a bit. Then on to the O2 bungs.

I ordered 2 mild steel bungs and 1 plug from an online outfit... www.o2bungs.com (catchy name huh, wonder what they sell? confuse

). I don't need the plug, but I wanted it as a "sacrificial lamb" to screw in while I was welding. The last thing I needed was the threads to get bugger'd from heat or distortion. I used my Miller 100 MIG setup, with standard Argon/CO2 mix, on the "C" heat and about 4-1/2 wire feed settings.

The Pypes stainless has enough ferrous/carbon content to MIG pretty well, but it's vital to sand or grind off any scale and expose fresh metal before welding. A quick wipe with acetone before welding takes care of any oil contamination.

The X-pipe's back under the car, with fresh gaskets and the 02 sensors (with a liberal slather of anti-seize) screwed in. Now I've got to figure out how to get the E-brake working! I'm using the Caddy Seville calipers on the rear, and they require an occasional E-brake application to stay in adjustment. With the crossmember moving aft a few inches, the pedal cable and hook are in the wrong place. Dontcha love how one job snowballs into another?? confuse

SShink · 3K+ Club

John that was a great writeup. Sure made it easier putting them in the x-pipe and being able to work on it on the bench!

John D · 2K+ Club

I'll give a lot of credit to Derek, who had the brainflash of welding a 2nd set of flanges on the X-pipe assy back near the mufflers. You can literally drop the exhaust in less time than it takes to jack up the car (although it costs you a set of gaskets).

It's getting close! And I'm getty antsy!

dashboard · 2K+ Club

When you get ready to fire that bad boy up let us know. Might be handy to have a couple of fire watches on duty. Maybe even some hot pizza and cold beer.

It seems to be coming together very nicely almost looks as if there was a master plan there. Could or should we expect anything less from gadget guy?

bowtie · Secretary

John D wrote:

Here's the pics...
The computer is tucked under the airbox, offset into the "void" behind the headlights. I had to add a curved offset piece to the factory washer jug mount to fit the wheelwell.

All of this stuff had room to spare in the Roadie/Caprice engine bay, which was about a foot wider (each side!) and another 6" or so to the rad support. Trying to cram it all in a smaller space has been a challenge - and making it still service-able!

Did you say you had an extra elbow and duct tube up to the MAF? After seeing that 96 today and yours, I think I might be able to make it work with mine and look somewhat factory then add an opene element a/f at the end. The one I saw today had a GM cap of some sort filling the hole for the homeplate piece. It looked like either a horn cap or a wheel center. Looked a little hokey, but I bet I could get something to work.

John D · 2K+ Club

Yup, I've got a (spare) complete air intake from the throttle opening to the filter box.

From what I've heard & seen a hockey puck (of all things!) works perfectly to plug the "home plate" air silencer hole. You're welcome to borrow any of it for mock-up, and if it works we can talk $$.

bowtie · Secretary

okey-dokey.

Lost in the 60s · President

Brian, I have some pieces left over from a Camaro LS1 conversion too. An elbow and a K&N open cone filter. I'll get a couple pics later so you can see if it looks like something you could use.

John D · 2K+ Club

Well, I couldn't stand it any longer. IT RUNS!!

Got my driveshaft back from Catco (thank you Charlie M & Dave at the store) who shortened and rebalanced it.
This was the last item needed to "plug the holes" and fill it with fluids. Once everything was preliminarily topped off I couldn't wait any more.

The engine harness isn't "cut into" the car harness yet, so out with some wire, wirenuts, and a few alligator jumpers. Rar, Rar, Rar, VROOM!

Had it running all of about 45 seconds and noticed a drip from the steam pipe to the puke tank. Shut it off and tightened that. Started it again... 15 seconds later a nasty GROWWLLLL from the PS pump told me that it got sucked dry. Shut it off and topped that up... Started it up again. Checked the passenger side, the RF, the front, the LF and I noticed my foot was getting wet!

CRAP! OIL!

The oil cooler had a nice steady stream of fresh 5W-30 spewing out onto the floor (and my foot)! I could have sworn I pressure checked that thing before I put it in (salvage piece). I cleaned it, flushed it, painted it... but the act of testing slipped by - but not the thought. Dummy me.
Ordered a new one via Bryan @ Friendly. Should be here in a few days and I can continue testing/running - hopefully for more than 75 seconds.

Lost in the 60s · President

What are you going to do the rest of the winter with your project done ?
I know.........I bought a Classic Update complete wire kit for my Chevelle..... biggrin

Actually, it might be nice to stay in the warm house and relax.........like you know how to do that..... confuse