Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Looks like i’am all in on engine rebuild

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Well engine is out that’s to help from a guy who didn’t want to be photographed. Engine on to machine sop to be evaluated this week. Then a decision, 355 or 383 strokes.

-- Edited by jim larson on Sunday 1st of November 2020 05:50:39 PM

dashboard · 2K+ Club

Looks like you had plenty of overhead room. Nice to have indoor projects for the winter.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Finished engine disassembly last night with the help of a friend. Now I know the reason for low compression at #7. Broken ring.

Looks like original pistons, original crank, std crank and rod bearings, aftermarket double roller timing chain, and aftermarket 280h cam.

Block appears to not have been decked or bored.

67ss · 1K+ Club

The cam explains why the vacuum was so low and why the drivability sucked. That is way to much camshaft for a basically stock short block. Even with the small chamber heads that motor could not have much compression with the dish pistons that are in it. If you are going aluminum head try and get the compression around 10-10.5. If cast iron around 9.5.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

67ss wrote:
The cam explains why the vacuum was so low and why the drivability sucked. That is way to much camshaft for a basically stock short block. Even with the small chamber heads that motor could not have much compression with the dish pistons that are in it. If you are going aluminum head try and get the compression around 10-10.5. If cast iron around 9.5.

I kind of want the car to use 87 gas, what kind of things am I looking for or to have done to the block to achieve that? When I did compression test all cylinder with the exception of # 7 were 160-165. #7 was 145.

When Mitch looked at the engine he noted there was quite a bit of blow/by on pass side head and also smoke evident at tail pipe. He wondered if I found anything regarding that. I really don’t know what I would be looking for. I have a friend that changed Valve seals to correct that.

Bob Wall also mentioned the TH 350 would have also needed a 2500 stall, I have no idea what’s in there.

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 12:13:22 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 4th of November 2020 12:15:43 PM

67ss · 1K+ Club

I’m guessing when they rebuilt it they may have just honed it and put new rings in it and the rings may not have ever seated. That would account for the blow by. To build a 400 horse engine to run on 87 is not realistic.

Basics I would do on the block would be to bore it, line hone the mains, and deck it to zero.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Not sure what this means, I looked into the exhaust port of the heads. On one #4, it contained oil along with the area around the valve stem quite oily. All others appeared dry. Would this indicate bow by?

67ss · 1K+ Club

Piston rings have to wear or seat into the cylinder wall for a scraping effect to keep the oil down in the crankcase. If the finish on the cylinder wall is not correct the rings don’t scrap they just slid and the oil creeps up the cylinder walls and past the rings causing the blow by. Can also compare it to seating new pads to rotors when doing a brake job. if the pad does not bite into the rotor the car won’t stop correctly. If the piston ring does not bite into the cylinder wall it won’t scrap the oil back down into the crankcase.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Progressing, taking disassembled block in for evaluation. Leaning towards just rebuilding the SB as opposed to a striker.

Just dropped off today. Looks like the .020 or .030 over hyper pistons, re=conditioned rods, crank grind, comelback trick flow heads, a winters intake, holley carb. and a roller cam and rockers. Looking at about 10.00 CR. Hoping to use 87 gas. Trying to get quench around 0.037-40.

-- Edited by jim larson on Monday 9th of November 2020 02:43:33 PM

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Looks like engine will be finished and fired tomorrow. Dyno later in the week.

more ambition than brains · 1K+ Club

Wow!
That is quick!
Karl

Larry Lucast · Active Member

Isn't a freshly built and painted engine pretty? You will have to get snow tires at this rate.

Derek69SS · Founding Member

I like those heads with the old camel humps and no accessory holes! Cool!
I didn't know anyone was making modern heads like that.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Problems never seem to go away . Rebuilder called, repo 66-7 chrome oil fill tube is to sloppy. Karl I sent you a message.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Derek69SS wrote:
I like those heads with the old camel humps and no accessory holes! Cool!
I didn't know anyone was making modern heads like that.

TrickFlow; but pricy. But only about $500 more than a pair of 462’s fully rebuild.

Lost in the 60s · President

jim larson wrote:
Problems never seem to go away . Rebuilder called, repo 66-7 chrome oil fill tube is to sloppy. Karl I sent you a message.

I know someone who is going to sell one, but I don't know when or how much. I'll see if I can get ahold of him.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Thanks Mitch. Engine just called and he was able to use some kind of expander for a nice fit. I did find a NOS one on flee bay for $120 plus shipping.

Lost in the 60s · President

Probably used a tail pipe expander. The one on Supercar forum has the fitting for a pcv valve too, if you want to run period correct valve covers with no holes.
I've never seen an sbc water pump with a bypass. Is that a short pump for left hand alternator mounting ?

Lost in the 60s · President

Chrome original, with pcv valve fitting...$120 shipped. Shipping could be a few dollars less, but this is pretty close to total.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Probably used a tail pipe expander. The one on Supercar forum has the fitting for a pcv valve too, if you want to run period correct valve covers with no holes.
I've never seen an sbc water pump with a bypass. Is that a short pump for left hand alternator mounting ?

My understand on the water pump there was a bypass on the L79 engines and maybe some 327. The winters intake has a outlet for a special fitting and then there is a 87* fitting that goes into the water pump. Bob say that maybe you don't want all that much water back to the water pump and more into the radiators, so suggested obstructing some flow though the hose. Yes it is a short pump for drivers side alternator.

more ambition than brains · 1K+ Club

The original pump on the 327 in the white Elky had no bypass (plug in top)
the first new one I bought (Delso) had the bypass.
I ordered a high volume from one of the A/M suppliers (OPG)?
No bypass, nice and smooth looked more like original pump.

Plugged bypass hole in winters manifold, hope no problems down the road.
Not sure of correct application, just liked the clean look.
Used original cast iron heads, added seats etc.
Karl

Your rebuild was Lazer Fast!

-- Edited by more ambition than brains on Monday 7th of December 2020 08:38:51 PM

67ss · 1K+ Club

Very curious to see what kind of dyno numbers it makes.

67ss · 1K+ Club

You are going to need to run valve covers with a PCV. The block has no provisions for a breather in the back.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Thanks for keeping a eye out for me, don't know what I would do without you, Mitch, and Bob advising me. Yes, using 68 valve covers with a breather and a PCV valve on the other side. If I chose to run the PCV valve in the oil fill tube I will have to figure out something for that right side valve cover hole. I probably should have just used a 68 oil fill tube, oh well.

-- Edited by jim larson on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 07:14:12 AM

L79 WP Bypass images I have heard the 300 HP and 350 HP got the bypass

-- Edited by jim larson on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 07:20:28 AM

-- Edited by jim larson on Tuesday 8th of December 2020 07:24:59 AM

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
Very curious to see what kind of dyno numbers it makes.

I'm curious too.

Jim what are the specs on the roller cam?

We can start making dyno guesses from there.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Retro-Fit Hydraulic Roller. Fair idle. Strong power increase in mildly modified engines with excellent throttle response. Will work with stock converter in 383 and up size engines or 2200 RPM stall speed converter in 305-350 cubic inch engines. Likes 3.23-3.73 rear gears. Also the largest cam for inboard/outboard marine applications.; Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 270/278; Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 219/227; Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .515/.530; LSA/ICL: 112/106; Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd; RPM Range: 1800-5800;

I’m Pretty sure this is the one that was picked out.

Lost in the 60s · President

jim larson wrote:
Thanks for keeping a eye out for me, don't know what I would do without you, Mitch, and Bob advising me. Yes, using 68 valve covers with a breather and a PCV valve on the other side. If I chose to run the PCV valve in the oil fill tube I will have to figure out something for that right side valve cover hole. I probably should have just used a 68 oil fill tube, oh well.

You can put a threaded plug in the filler tube. '68 would have the pcv filler also. '67 w/pcv was only a California thing.

SShink · 3K+ Club

67ss wrote:
Very curious to see what kind of dyno numbers it makes.

Thanks CP for the cam info.

My dyno guess is 370 HP and 390 lb ft torque.

Other guesses?

dashboard · 2K+ Club

350Hp, 350T

jim larson · 2K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
350Hp, 350T

I sent Chris P and Bob W a dyna sheet from Chris Straub on what he thought it would do. So their guesses won't count.

voodoo-retro-fit-hydraulic-roller-cam-lifter-kit-chevrolet-small-block-270-278.html Will work with stock converter in 383-up ci. , likes 3.23 to 3.73 gearing, I currently have 3.55.Likes 2000rpm converter in 350 or less c/ci.

So were using a 2000 converter.

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 08:11:00 AM

Lost in the 60s · President

Are you getting the B&M converter controller to use the lock up ? My 200 ran hot all the time with the non-lock up conversion, because it doesn't send as much fluid thru the cooling system. John converted it back and I added the controller. LOVE that thing. It locks by mph, not rpm. I can put the trans in 3rd gear (direct) and have the converter lock up at 35 mph to keep the rpm down and fluid flowing for cooling. Probably not a big deal with a cruiser, but it was night and day pulling the travel trailer with the '38.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Are you getting the B&M converter controller to use the lock up ? My 200 ran hot all the time with the non-lock up conversion, because it doesn't send as much fluid thru the cooling system. John converted it back and I added the controller. LOVE that thing. It locks by mph, not rpm. I can put the trans in 3rd gear (direct) and have the converter lock up at 35 mph to keep the rpm down and fluid flowing for cooling. Probably not a big deal with a cruiser, but it was night and day pulling the travel trailer with the '38.

Not sure what John is doing regarding that, He did say something about that; but I with my lack of knowledge, didn't understand what he was saying. I was just trusting him for what I was going to use the car for as I didn't want to show my lack of knowledge or that I was not trusting him.

I did just message John, and he messaged me and said I would have a lock-up converter, there was no mention of a controller or type.

I just did a little research, looks like there are just 3 with a manual override and 3 without for a 2004R available. No sure what John is doing.

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 06:25:11 PM

-- Edited by jim larson on Wednesday 9th of December 2020 06:37:42 PM

Lost in the 60s · President

In the trans, it is built to either lock up the converter or not and he is building it to lock. Without a computer to tell the trans when to lock it, there is no other control internally.
You need to decide which controller you want to use. With a non-computer car, that may limit the number of controllers.

Most of the controllers use vacuum or other means to control the converter and it will only lock in 4th gear.

I believe this is the one I have. The transducer screws into the pig tail adapter and then your speedo cable screws onto the big end of the transducer.

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/bmm-70244

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Yes he said he is building it to lockup, so most likely not a manual option.

67ss · 1K+ Club

John is setting it to lock up when I had talked with him. I did not ask which way he was doing it. It is possible with pressure switches to make it lock up by itself and all you do is supply power into the transmission. I’m sure John will let him know what he needs to do to make it work. Otherwise have John call me and tell me what it needs and we can make sure it gets done correctly.

There is also the whole tv cable thing that is going to have to be figured out. May have to have a tech session once it is all together.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

67ss wrote:
John is setting it to lock up when I had talked with him. I did not ask which way he was doing it. It is possible with pressure switches to make it lock up by itself and all you do is supply power into the transmission. I’m sure John will let him know what he needs to do to make it work. Otherwise have John call me and tell me what it needs and we can make sure it gets done correctly.
There is also the whole tv cable thing that is going to have to be figured out. May have to have a tech session once it is all together.

John has a TV set up from Bowtie Overdrives that is suppose to be a EZ set up designed by them specifically for a 1966 Holley 4160 carb. Expensive; but John says its worth the $'s. He as said that the lockup is set to work at 1900-2000 rpm. Engine is set up to go on the run stand on Monday. If everything is OK, then Derek will book a time slot for the dyno, preferably next Wed or Thu.

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Seems like it’s 1 step forward and 1/2 step back. got the engine running on a stand yesterday. Buy misses every once in a while. Trying a different distributor today, or may go with a Pertonix unit.

-- Edited by jim larson on Tuesday 15th of December 2020 03:50:04 PM

jim larson · 2K+ Club

Decided to go to chiropractor, after two sessions one session with a PT and X-Rays. So engine and trans on hold until back heals better. Hope it gets better with rest as Chiropractor and PT guy made it worse. Vertebra stress fracture needs to heal along with back muscle issues, hopefully by Feb. OD trans is done and Dyno to be done in Jan. Well time to contemplate install issues.

Bobs_Place · Vice President

Sorry to here you are still having back problems, hope you can get it resolved soon.

Good luck

Bob

67ss · 1K+ Club

Did the engine get on the dyno?

jim larson · 2K+ Club

not yet. Waiting for my back to get better and I return from KY. Hopefully by the end of Jan. Builder is storing the engine in his shop until them.