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Lost in the 60s


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John's '72
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Today,I backed John's '72 Chevelle into the "operating bay" and started draining the coolant in preparation for an entire drivetrain swap. Then I removed the drive belts, then the fan, shroud, upper hose, etc. etc.

I "tinkered" with it for a while and ended up with this..cool







Parts in the trunk, on the floor, everywhere.





He might be a bit surprised tomorrow when he comes over to help and all we do is remove the hood and hook up the chains.
We still need to remove the bench seat and carpet and then cut out the floor for the Tremec 5 speed. We need to get it all bolted in and measure for the driveshaft to be made, so I'm hoping we can get to that point tomorrow. He's bringing the motor and rear axle with. He had the Tremec shipped here.





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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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What is he going to do with the old motor? Looks like it a 330 horse crate motor.

I am assuming you are taking the Muncie for one of your ridesthumbsup



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Chris P
East Central, Mn

66 Chevelle 300 deluxe
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67ss wrote:

What is he going to do with the old motor? Looks like it a 330 horse crate motor.

I am assuming you are taking the Muncie for one of your ridesthumbsup

 Originally they were both possibly going to end up in the '66 Malibu, but now he is looking for an early 50's truck for the engine ...dunno

It could be a crate motor. It runs good and has enough power but he wanted the big HP 383.

I may get the Muncie yet.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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The old engine looks to have '906' vortec head castings.. Cam swap and you can make decent power with it.

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John E - Rogers, MN

Instructions? All I need is the exploded view.
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Looks like fun Mitch. Nice and cool today for working.

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Michael S. - Cambridge
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Being my shop is half cave, it stays cool in there all the time. I have the dehumidifier running and it was very comfortable yesterday.

John bought new big tube headers too. I convinced him to get the painted set so we can bolt them up, make any "adjustment's" for clearance and then take them to Race Coatings for Cermachromeing.

Quite a plateful for one day to get everything fitted and measured for the outside work needed to complete this.whew

He has bucket seats too, so while we are hacking the tunnel for the 5 speed, we'll also be welding in the brackets. That will be another day's work.

I'll have progress pics this evening..thumbsup



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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John is lucky to have you lending him a hand.
If he has no further use for the old headers, I'll take em for a few bucks. Just set them aside for me.

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Northwestern Ohio
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The shutter cover over the lens on my camera got stuck yesterday and I was "tapping" it on the tool box to free it up. Apparently the card dislodged enough that ALL the pics I took of the install of the new engine/trans and floor cutting didn't get saved...banghead

All I got before the shutter stuck are these 2 of the old motor coming out.

John is getting bids on a pole building at his house and may keep the old headers to hang on the wall. They are rather beat up and have road rash on the bottom anyway.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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We have made some progress...

New engine/trans is in. I had to cut a rather large hole in the tunnel for the 5 speed.

The half moon shape is from the original floor shifter. I made a patch to fill that, as the supplied tunnel patch didn't.

Cut a hole for the shifter and then installed the patch. It was not especially easy to get it to conform to the flor pan.

Moved on to the axle swap. 10 bolt out, 12 bolt in. It has new 3.31 gears and a new posi carrier.

All new control arms.

He also got the anti-hop bars, so I had to carefully remove the new urethane bushing from the housing.

New Moser axles and Yukon c-clips.

Ready for the clips.

I took more pics of it done, but they turned out too dark to see much. Better pics tomorrow.

 



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Went to fill the diff today and discovered the anti-hop bar was blocking it. Had to remove the mount and pivit the bar out of the way.

Now that he has provision for a sway bar in the lower mounts, he ordered that too...rolleyes

He has always had a slow leak from the ps pump and couldn't find it. I found this cut in the reservoir from the mounting bracket.

Cleaned it up and tapped it down. There is another dent that looks like it is almost punctured too, so I welded them both.

I ground down the bracket some too for more clearance.

Then I ran the parts thru the washer and blasting cabinet and made them purdy.

John stopped by and dropped off his new seats.

Then UPS stopped by and dropped off yet MORE parts one of which is new carpet. The old carpet was cut too small and didn't fit well. We need even more width for the raised tunnel.

 

 

 



-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Wednesday 15th of July 2015 08:54:39 PM

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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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That should be fun with a 5 speed.

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Looks like he went with the TMI seat covers?



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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SShink wrote:

Looks like he went with the TMI seat covers?

 Legendary but they are the sport covers and foam.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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I had the same issue with the anti-hop setup in the Elky. I had a bung plug welded on the cover; don't forget the posi additive.

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dashboard wrote:

I had the same issue with the anti-hop setup in the Elky. I had a bung plug welded on the cover; don't forget the posi additive.

 Knowing "Mr. Chrome" John, it will soon have a chrome rear cover. I'll push for one with a fill/check plug.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Back to the PS reservoir.

When I went to assemble it I realized there was a bolt missing for the front of the mount. Now I'm thinking that is why the bracket cut the can. I added the missing bolt to the front of the bracket and sure enough, the bracket isn't even close to the can now. I didn't need to grind off any of the bracket...rolleyes





Oh well, moved on to mounting the water pump.



Then I could mount the PS pump. The hooky pressure hose has always bugged me.



So I removed it and put on an extra one I had for my 70 big block. It fit really well and looks MUCH better. The real bonus is having a '70 part on this car instantly increases it's appeal and value from just a 2 headlight car...laughing



Moved to the alt mount and.....Houston, we have a problem...headscratch



Seems he needs to get an aftermarket mount for use with the Victor Jr intake...rolleyes

I then resigned myself to crawl under the back again and adjust the upper control arms to allow drilling the holes for the anti-hop bars.







Then I picked up and PUT AWAY all the tools I had used, swept the floor and generally cleaned the area...cool

No work tomorrow. I will be at the Street Machine Nationals all day...nana



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What gears is the pulled 10 bolt?


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stldrgn wrote:

What gears is the pulled 10 bolt?

 3.73



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Slow, but steady progress.

We did seam seal the tunnel and John put POR 15 on the entire floor. He then installed sound and heat barrier. We have a little of that left to do tomorrow and then we will attempt to install the new carpet over the enlarged tunnel. If that goes well, the new buckets should be in the car tomorrow too.

Last Saturday, I installed the new alt brackets, chrome PS pump pulley and belts, then sealed the threads on the fittings for the heater hoses.

I was going to install the carb today but discovered he only got 1 gasket and with the spacer it, obviously, needs 2. John is picking one up tonight and will bring it tomorrow. He has a new feed line set-up coming from Summit, since this carb is a morphadite and has a 9.5 inch C to C on the bowls and his old feed line won't open that far...banghead

Lots of time consuming and irritating issues with small parts that don't interchange from his old engine and we wait for new stuff...rolleyes

We're still waiting for Sanderson to ship the headers too. They've been saying they will for 2 weeks now....that's getting a little old..bs



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Put Sanderson's in the 65. You will like them a lot.

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Dan Williams wrote:

Put Sanderson's in the 65. You will like them a lot.

 I'm hoping they fit a lot better than the Hedman's he sent back.

Sure would be nice to get them and find out...headscratch

Once here, we will install and check fit, make any "adjustments" and then take them out for ceramic coating, so we're at least 2 weeks away from firing this up yet. Originally, I was thinking it would be on the road by the end of July.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Today we finished installing the sound and heat insulation and then started on the new carpet. It's from Trim Parts and the front didn't fit worth a darn. Spent a lot of time cutting off the front a little at a time to get it in place. The boot he bought is too small and short, so there will be yet another shipment from Summit.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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There's been some progress since the last post.

The fuel line came in and looks good. It also necessitated moving the heater hose to the other side of the thermo housing, as they ran head-on into each other..rolleyes

The engine builder told him it only had 7 inches of vacuum at idle, so I hid a vacuum pump behind the left headlight and routed the hoses from the back of the carb to it and then back to the assist chamber.

Finally got the Sanderson's last Friday and apparently part of the wait was to coat as an apology for taking 3 weeks to get them here. They fit OK, but I would've made adjustment's for spark plug/wire boot fit had they been raw. I also had to bend the lower arm of the Z-bar to clear 1 tube. Oh well, I put a bead of silicone on and installed them.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Last Tuesday we installed the Sanderson headers. We knew from the Hedman's that an OEM starter wasn't going to fit so John brought in a PowerMaster mini starter #9100 a few weeks back. That has a dual pattern mounting block for both 153 and 168 tooth ring gears. I screwed around on Tuesday for 3 HOURS trying to get it to function correctly. It would turn the engine over for a few cycles and then start grinding on the ring gear. I shimmed it and moved it and it never would keep working consistently. Finally gave up and went back to it on Thursday. After reading reviews on-line of others having problems with this starter, I modified OEM bolts with the shoulder washer and knurling to try to hold it from shifting. After another HOUR, I pulled it out and threw it in the box to return. We ordered a 9200 starter, which is a dedicated 168 tooth starter with a FULL nose cone, as OEM. We told Summit we needed it here the next day at no charge to compensate for the POS 9100. It was here at 10 am Friday. I bolted it in, wired it and it has worked from the first turn of the key 3 dozen times now with no issues or shims. It took all of 10 minutes to install and work properly. I'll never buy another flat mounting block mini-starter after this frustrating and time consuming ordeal..angry

ANYWAY, here are pics of the final assembly with wire looms and custom made MSD wires. The driveshaft came back from ceramic coating and we installed that, filled the trans, topped off the coolant and PS fluid, primed the carb and it instantly fired up !! The exhaust doesn't line up with the header change and it sounds nasty.

30 seconds of hearing it run erased 3 weeks of frustration and doubt from John's face...nana



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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What brand billet hood hinges are those Mitch? Curious, why not just move the fitting on the intake for the heater hose to the other side of the thermostat housing?



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Dear Optimist, Pessimist, and Realist.

While you guys were busy arguing about the glass of water. I drank it!

Sincerly,

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Chris R wrote:

What brand billet hood hinges are those Mitch? Curious, why not just move the fitting on the intake for the heater hose to the other side of the thermostat housing?

 No clue on the hinges but they are junk, IMHO. They have a lot of side play and the cylinders are too short to allow the hood to open as far as OEM.

On the heater hose, I explained that in the previous post. It interfered with the fuel hose.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Lookin' good Mitch!

Just curious about how much additional vacuum that pump adds?  Throw a vacuum gauge on it before it leaves your shop and let us know.  I don't have an vacuum issue, but just curious.  tiphat 



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SShink wrote:

Lookin' good Mitch!

Just curious about how much additional vacuum that pump adds?  Throw a vacuum gauge on it before it leaves your shop and let us know.  I don't have an vacuum issue, but just curious.  tiphat 

 I'll have to read the specs again, but I think it shuts off at 18-21"

It relies on engine vacuum first, but when the vacuum falls below a set level, it comes on to provide vacuum for the brakes.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Looks great, can't wait to hear it. Got to have a very nice lumpy idle if it is only making 7" of vacuum. 



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Had the same issue with the starter on mine. Took it with me to Ohio last month and let Summit know what I thought of it. They gave me cash back plus an extra $20 bucks and I had it for about a year +. I ran the plug wires under the headers. Don't have a picture but happy how they came out.

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Sorry Mitch. Was reading to quickly and I can totally see what you mean with the fuel line now looking at the photos.cuckoo



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Chris - Ramsey, MN.

Dear Optimist, Pessimist, and Realist.

While you guys were busy arguing about the glass of water. I drank it!

Sincerly,

The opportunist.
Lost in the 60s


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Dan Williams wrote:

Had the same issue with the starter on mine. Took it with me to Ohio last month and let Summit know what I thought of it. They gave me cash back plus an extra $20 bucks and I had it for about a year +. I ran the plug wires under the headers. Don't have a picture but happy how they came out.

 The front 2 cylinders on each side worked well with the vertical looms, but there was no way the back 2 were going to survive coming up. All 4 of those go down and back behind the heads. It looks a little imbalanced but it is what it is...thumbsup

Yesterday, I went over all the fasteners under the car to make certain it was "DONE". John came over for a couple hours and we got the shift boot on and the carpet fitted on the left side along with the seat bolted in. I will be finishing the right side carpet and seat install today. He has an appointment at Bee Line in Forest Lake for Tuesday morning to get the exhaust system reconnected and then off to Centerline to check/set the pinion angle. After that, it's a done deal. We've only run it about 20 minutes in the shop but as of now, there are no leaks.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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First time in the daylight in 6 weeks. Been a long haul for just a complete drivetrain swap...doh

I drove it a few miles to be certain the clutch was adjusted and everything was good. It did have 2 fuel seepage's from the fuel line that I got to stop with some armstrong torque. No other visible leaks and even idling in the driveway, the temp never went over 175°. Engine is strong and has some low end torque below 3k rpm. It has no problem convincing the slimy Radial T/A's to let go of the pavement...laughing I LOVE the 5 speed. First gear is low, even with the 3.31 gears now and the rpm drop thru 4th is great. I'm gonna have to consider getting one or 2 of these now.dunno

John is coming over after work to put the hood on and load it up on my trailer for the run to Forest Lake tomorrow.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Deja' Vu

Coming back out...banghead

Stan-isized pan...laughing



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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ok, what did I miss, what happened? Cause? Fix?

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'69 Convertible,  Lemans Blue, 454, 200 4R, 12 Bolt. 

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The clutch needed adjustment after the initial shakedown and his floor jack slid off the crossmember, crushing the front edge of the pan, which pulled the lip down and the gasket popped out...doh

New Milodon pan, oil pump, pickup screen and driveshaft just arrived overnight from Summit.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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And I thought that sh8t only happened to me.

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Got the new Milodon pan, pump and pick up screen today.

I decorated his front bumper with the included decals...laughing

Well, went to put it on and it wouldn't fit over THEIR pick up screen...angry

I had to modify the baffle a little to get it on.

Fancy pick up screen.

All buttoned up...it complements his bumper nicely...nana

Back in the chassis. Another 4-5 hours to hook everything up again and he'll be on the road.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Gotta love those 1 piece Felpro oil pan gaskets.  I started using them about 5 years ago, and won't use anything else.



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Stan S.-Twin Cities 'South Metro'

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I putzed for 5 hours yesterday and there's very little left to do. Filter and re-introduce the coolant, install driveshaft and button up the shifter boot.

Then the fun starts....TEST DRIVE... nana

Gotta get that done before John gets here at noon. He won't miss a couple 32nds of tread missing, will he...laughing



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Well, the test drive was short and EXPENSIVE !!!

The first time to 4500, the fan hub came off....



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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Guess now that means it is aluminum radiator and electric fan time. Man that really sucks. clonk



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67ss wrote:

Guess now that means it is aluminum radiator and electric fan time. Man that really sucks. clonk

 Radiator was a brand new aluminum Dewitt...angry

He guilted Summit into replacing the radiator too, but they are back ordered, so he is getting a Griffin with dual electric fans mounted. Summit is replacing the water pump too.

Also ordered 2, 30 amp Dakota relays and the programmable controller.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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I really like the dakota digital fan controllers, I have installed two of them and they work awesome. It is good that summit is covering the radiator when it was their crappy water pump that failed to cause the problem.



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67ss wrote:

I really like the Dakota digital fan controllers, I have installed two of them and they work awesome. It is good that summit is covering the radiator when it was their crappy water pump that failed to cause the problem.

 I finally installed a Dakota controller in my '38 a couple weeks ago and now the fan doesn't come on at 170° and run the whole time I'm driving it...rolleyes

The water pump is one of the better rated Edelbrock units but it's STILL made in CHINA...angry I pulled the pump and the hub easily slides on the shaft and spins freely. It's like it was glued on and the glue failed...rant2

He called the engine builder, who builds a lot of engines for circle track cars, and asked what pump he recommends for high rpm. His answer was "none of them, they all fail". Best advice is to go with electric fans and remove the weight from the hub and avoid the fan thru the rad the NEXT time one lets go, because it's going to happen again. That's really sad what we have to deal with for cheap crap parts.

Summit actually went well above and beyond by replacing the residual damage and allowing full credit for the Dewitt against the Griffin. It's still more work but at least the expense is only an additional $250 with the controller and relays. The Griffin was $645, if he would've had to purchase it.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

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1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

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1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
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Lost in the 60s wrote:

Well, the test drive was short and EXPENSIVE !!!

The first time to 4500, the fan hub came off....

 

Well at least you were close to home. I suppose you were at 4500 before you got out of the drivewaystirpot



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'69 Convertible,  Lemans Blue, 454, 200 4R, 12 Bolt. 

Jon H.  Lino Lakes
Lost in the 60s


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Jon H wrote:
Lost in the 60s wrote:

Well, the test drive was short and EXPENSIVE !!!

The first time to 4500, the fan hub came off....

 

Well at least you were close to home. I suppose you were at 4500 before you got out of the drivewaystirpot

 No, I don't drive that in residential neighborhoods. There's a 1 mile stretch of road on the south side of the airport with no homes or side streets that's my "test' road...razz

The rpm may have been a little higher. The slimy Radial T/A's had just given up their grip on the road and it was starting to drift nicely when the schmidt hit the fan, or the fan hit the rad...laughing



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

Lifetime member of the "Cars apart Club"

1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
Lost in the 60s


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Lots of mods to the core support and top plate, but the Griffin is in. It's a lot bigger than the Dewitt was. In the process of wiring the relays and controller. I didn't realize the controller didn't come with a sender and we ordered that yesterday for overnight. UPS put it on the wrong plane and it's thousands of miles away in the wrong direction...banghead They figured it would take 2 DAYS to get it turned around and back here.

Summit sent out another one today. Hopefully, UPS doesn't screw up again and I can get the cooling system closed up and full tomorrow.



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Mitch D.   River Falls, WI

Lifetime member of the "Cars apart Club"

1966 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1970 Chevelle SS 396 M20

1967 Camaro SS/RS 350 M20
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If that doesn't cool that engine nothing is going to. Looks like a nice install Mitch. But again who would expect anything less!

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'69 Convertible,  Lemans Blue, 454, 200 4R, 12 Bolt. 

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How big are those fans Mitch? They look a lot larger than what I have seen before.

Nice looking install.thumbsup



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