Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

SShink · 3K+ Club

Street 350 Build Project-Guess the HP/Torque

67ss · 1K+ Club

I'll throw in a few more specs to help. Will be 9.1 compression. Camshaft is 219/227 at .050 and lift of 474/495.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

330 HP 301 T

But, but I'm the first one to throw out any numbers so I reserve the right to change them latter. I think with the 200r4 your going to have the best of everything. The economy and drivability of that combo makes a guy think of pulling out the BB and replacing it with a peppy SB.

3 April, After seeing those shiny valve covers and that intake plus those noisy, heat radiating, spark plug wire burning, hand branding, drag on the ground, can't get to the oil filter much less the starter headers, I need to up date my projections.

335 HP 340 T

Your going to want a shifter with the extra peddle. By the way, what RPM are we going to take this thing to?

-- Edited by dashboard on Thursday 3rd of April 2014 10:07:54 AM

Dan Williams · Active Member

390hp/370tq I'll start a new thread on mine

Lost in the 60s · President

Cam and compression specs are very similar to a "70 LT1 350, so I guess 372 hp 385 torque

Not sure why you want an air gap manifold. Most of the info on the web describe them as not very street friendly. My understanding is they don't warm the carb enough to mix properly and are more oriented to high rpm performance.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Hydraulic flat tappet? or Hydraulic roller cam

67ss · 1K+ Club

Tony Hoffer wrote:
Hydraulic flat tappet? or Hydraulic roller cam

Hydraulic Flat tappet

67ss · 1K+ Club

Lost in the 60s wrote:
Cam and compression specs are very similar to a "70 LT1 350, so I guess 372 hp 385 torque
Not sure why you want an air gap manifold. Most of the info on the web describe them as not very street friendly. My understanding is they don't warm the carb enough to mix properly and are more oriented to high rpm performance.

I know a few guys with air gap manifolds that have not had any problems with drivability. Most air gap manifolds are rated for 1500-6500 rpm.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

355 HP 390 TQ

SShink · 3K+ Club

Keep the guesses coming. I think some are pretty close, and others not so much.

I had an air gap on the 402 c.i. in the last blue '72, and no issues. I think the cold running issues are when the ambient temp is truly in the 30's, and if I drive the car in those temps, I let it warm up good before leaving.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

I'll go 365 hp, 410 Tq

Chris S · Active Member

340HP 375TQ

Can't wait to hear the results!

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

335 hp, 360 tq

bowtie · Secretary

354hp/351tq

As the winner of the PHR Howitzer build guessing game (swag courtesy of Johnny Hunkins) I feel pretty confident it will run what stan wants.

stldrgn · Member

362HP 385TQ I bet a 750 holley would make a noticeable difference on the dyno like 15+

-- Edited by stldrgn on Monday 24th of March 2014 08:10:29 PM

bowtie · Secretary

I think a 750 might be a little too much. I think he needs some 1.6 rockers and a 650 carb... would put it very close to 390hp then.

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Judging by the lift and the duration Id say he is using 1.6's already

67ss · 1K+ Club

Comp cams 1.52 roller tip. Agreed the 750 might make more overall horsepower, but for a car being driven on the steet 95% of the time I would rather have the mileage and drivability of the 600 CFM carb.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Here's some interesting reading on what this build is based on similar to the Danger Mouse builds from PHR, but theirs was done with a 355, so mine will probably be slightly less in hp/torque, but close.:

Test 14-GMPP Vortec heads:
Max 435 tq, 409 hp
Avg 413 tq, 330 hp
Installed GMPP Vortec iron heads (Scoggin-Dickey Performance Center PN SD8060A: 64cc chambers, 170cc intake runner volume, 1.94/1.50 valves), COMP 1.5:1 Magnum roller tip rockers, and Edelbrock Performer RPM "Air Gap" manifold and made lots of extra power.

Read more (Read up to Test 14): http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/smallblockshootout/0412em_small_block_chevy_engine/#ixzz2vF0sPNR3

So, if we get close to that 350+ HP/400 Ft. Lbs. I will be very happy. Engine parts are going to be bolted together this weekend, break-in next weekend, with a dyno run shortly after that, and then into the vert!

67ss · 1K+ Club

These are the numbers from the engine Loren built for his sons camaro. Same basic 350 with 8.5-9.1 compression vortec heads and one cam size down from lunati then what we are using.

It is 1980 vintage 350 block bored .030, built with:

Speed Pro Hypereutectic Pistons w/.180 Dish (to keep compression down for 87 oct, should be 8.75-9:00:1)

Vortec Heads (thank you Bryan)

Edelbrock Performer Intake

Lunati Cam & Lifter kit - 60101K 213/219, .454/.468

Comp roller tip rockers, & guide plates

Balanced assembly

Edelbrock 600 cfm carb.

With the shop Holley 750

Peak hp 319hp

Peak torque 391

switched to my Edelbrock 1406 (unknown condition carb, came with motor)

Peak hp 303

Peak torque 379?

-- Edited by 67ss on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 12:57:46 PM

SteveS · Super Poster

375 hp 360 torque

I like the Lunati Voodoo series, I had a 60103 in my last 350, street friendly and good power

gearlube · Active Member

331HP/321TRQ Either way it will be fun!!! And congrats to Steven! The nice thing about buying an engine from a trust worthy person is you know you won't be on the side of the road with a blown engine...

-- Edited by gearlube on Tuesday 25th of March 2014 02:06:25 PM

Tony Hoffer · Moderator

Stan. Have you thought of EZ-EFI or some variant? Ive heard great things about it.

Chris R · 2K+ Club

345HP/375tq.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Tony Hoffer wrote:
Stan. Have you thought of EZ-EFI or some variant? Ive heard great things about it.

Not this year Tony, but it's on my radar for next year. If I do it, here's what has caught my eye with the new fuel sump tank included that elminates running lines to the rear and adding a sump to the existing tank, and incorporates a high pressure fuel pump into an easy installation for about $2500:

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/edl-3606/overview/

bowtie · Secretary

bowtie wrote:
354hp/351tq

As the winner of the PHR Howitzer build guessing game (swag courtesy of Johnny Hunkins) I feel pretty confident it will run what stan wants.

Oops, I just noticed the TQ number was typo'd. I'm changing to 354/381.

SShink · 3K+ Club

And so it begins... everything's ready to go to pull the engine/trans tomorrow, then up to Chris P.'s over the next couple of weekends to build the new 350. Ready to yank it Steven!

It sure is nice working with clean and fresh fasteners. Everything comes apart lickety split, and no rust falling in my face!

I decided to go with Patriot ceramic coated headers, which is good news and bad news.... The good news is they are longer than the old ones, so I will be able to tweak the exhaust a little and it should work fine. Better to be too long than too short. I was on the raggedy edge of being too short when I installed it last year, so this should take care of that:

And now the bad news... I noticed right away through the plastic that the tube on the front passenger side had a void in the ceramic coating, and the stell was showing through. I called Summit, and they shipped a new set out today, and the brown truck will pick up the old set at our front door, so very easy!

I went with the Patriot's because they had a 1 year warranty on the coating versus the Dynoflow's I was considering, so hopefully this was a fluke.

On with the wrenching!

SShink · 3K+ Club

Had a good day at Chris P.'s (Thanks Chris! ) assembling the 350! Things are together waiting for the break in, then dyno, and finally some Chev orange paint.

Scott P., you might recognize those 1.52 roller rockers. They are going to a good home in the club.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Can't wait to here it run this coming weekend.

Lost in the 60s · President

67ss wrote:
Can't wait to here it run this coming weekend.

If Stan is going back up maybe he can swing over here and bring that axle up to you...

I got it welded last weekend.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

Looks great!!

SShink · 3K+ Club

Scott Parkhurst wrote:
Looks great!!

Hey Scott, did you see some of your 'old' parts made it into the build? The 1.52 rockers used to yours. I'm sure because they belonged to you it will add at least 15 HP!

67ss · 1K+ Club

Getting closer.

dashboard · 2K+ Club

330 HP 301 T

But, but I'm the first one to throw out any numbers so I reserve the right to change them latter. I think with the 200r4 your going to have the best of everything. The economy and drivability of that combo makes a guy think of pulling out the BB and replacing it with a peppy SB.

3 April, After seeing those shiny valve covers and that intake plus those noisy, heat radiating, spark plug wire burning, hand branding, drag on the ground, can't get to the oil filter much less the starter, bolts won't hold torque headers, I need to up date my projections.

335 HP 340 T

gearbangergearbangerYour going to want a shifter with the extra peddle. By the way, what RPM are we going to take this thing to?

SShink · 3K+ Club

dashboard wrote:
By the way, what RPM are we going to take this thing to?

Kevin, I knew you would like those D#@N headers showing up on there. They are my donation to the Chris P. engine running stand enhancements. So they will stay with the stand after we are done. Wait until you see the shiny ceramic chrome ones I'm installing in the vert that burn up things even faster!

The cam specs are from 1400-5700 RPM, but I probably won't take it past 5500. Dyno time has been scheduled at Competition Engines with your old buddy Randy, so I'll update after the pulls.

bowtie · Secretary

Whens the Dyno due date?

SShink · 3K+ Club

bowtie wrote:
Whens the Dyno due date?

Patience young grasshopper. Soon...

gearlube · Active Member

I get the first Race!! To give you a fair chance I will use the wife's Turbo Chev Sonic!!

LOL..JK... Love you man. Stan has one of the nicest condition convertibles around.

-- Edited by gearlube on Thursday 3rd of April 2014 03:00:31 PM

dashboard · 2K+ Club

”Wait until you see the shiny ceramic chrome ones.”

That’s wonderful Stan, the shiny chrome ones will prove excellent at retaining even more heat.

Scott Parkhurst · Super Poster

Stan...I'm glad those rockers are contributing to power somewhere after sitting on my shelf for years. Glad to see them being put to good use...and I accounted for their mystical powers in my guesstimate...

Lost in the 60s · President

dashboard wrote:

”Wait until you see the shiny ceramic chrome ones.”
That’s wonderful Stan, the shiny chrome ones will prove excellent at retaining even more heat.

I can't believe you cut up a perfectly good set of Hooker headers...

Cermachrome is just a shiny rendition of ceramic coating. Not chrome plating. They won't retain more heat. It actually reduces the amount of heat given off by the tubes under the hood.

I had the header and intake for my 292 cermachromed a few months ago but I haven't seen them yet. They are in engine prison...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Well, things couldn't have gone any better with the break-in this morning!

Chris had most of the connections already made on the engine stand, so we finished it off, primed the carb, and Chris hit the key. It started so fast on the first crank neither one of us was ready! Other than an air bubble starting to cause some heat which worked itself through, it ran like a top. We did have to hose down the radiator occasionally to keep the temp under control since the engine was inside the garage, but I'm sure it will be fine in the car with a larger radiator and clutch fan.

It ran great, has a nice idle but you can tell it's not stock, and it was pulling 15 inches of vacuum, so plenty for power brakes and future AC.

Here's a video of how good it starts:

Here's a video that has different RPM's:

And some more:

Things went so well, I stuck around and we broke in the cam on the 327 with L98 heads and 10:1 compression that Chris is building for another guy. That will be one fun 327 going into a 65 Nova!

Kudos to Chris P. and I had a blast planning and watching him do his thing on these engines.

Tomorrow orange paint goes on the block to make it a true Chevy. I'll post dyno data on my 350 when it's done. Stay tuned!

67ss · 1K+ Club

I'm glad I did use your carb to break in the 327. I had his on and off the motor about 5 times before I got all the bugs out of it. But ran and idles good. He came and picked up today. One motor left to go, I'll have to start a thread on that one.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Chris, good to hear the 'little' Edelbrock from my engine was helpful. It does seem to work good.

Well, such a beautiful day, no reason not make this 350 truly a Chevy with some good old Duplicolor Chevy Orange.

Before:

After:

Hope to clean up the trans and paint some more parts this week while the weather is nice outside.

frank · Active Member

stan going to need a engine stand in about one month. thanks

SShink · 3K+ Club

frank wrote:
stan going to need a engine stand in about one month. thanks

No problem Frank. I'll run it up to you next weekend if that works.

The stand in the pics is actually John D.'s. Your stand was packed into the shed until yesterday when I put out all the outdoor furniture. I can get to it now, so no problem running it up to you.

frank · Active Member

thanks stan

67ss · 1K+ Club

Happy dyno day hope it makes some big numbers. I forgot to put in my guess I say 355 hp and 402 torque.

-- Edited by 67ss on Friday 11th of April 2014 08:51:49 AM

bowtie · Secretary

what's the prize I get for guessing correctly?

SShink · 3K+ Club

Folks, we have a winner! Congrats to John E. with the guess of 365 HP/410 Torque, as it came in at 370 HP (O.K.... it's 369.5 HP but I'm calling it 370!) and 411 ft. lbs. of torque! Proof is attached. Congrats John! Let me know what your favorite beverage is, and I'll bring it to the meeting.

I'll post more details later, as I need to get back in the shop to marry the engine and trans together!

Needless to say, I'm a happy camper with how this turned out. Thanks to Chris P. for the combo recommendations and build!