Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

Steven, a word of 'wisdom'... there were 2 different 200 transmissions.  There is the standard 3 speed 200C version, and the 2004R that is the overdrive version.  Don't ask me how I know other than I donated some aluminum to Master Trans' scrap pile after my first attempt at buying a 2004R... 

-- Edited by SShink on Wednesday 15th of May 2013 08:27:42 PM

cooz65 wrote:

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First off, let me start by saying thank you to everyone who has responded and helped me out. I really do appreciate it because without you "old" guys I would never learn as much as I have. Hopefully sometime this week I can give John a call, but it's finals week here at school and I'm doing the best I can to try and study. Here is a good article I found comparing the two http://www.webrodder.com/article.php?AID=426&SID=6 Throughout the article they talk about how much stronger the 700 is, but it got me thinking, so many people are running the 200 they can't be that bad of a transmission when rebuilt.

-Bowtie - A fancy RPM calculator says that with your set up your spinning about 2200rpm at 65mph, Sound reasonable? The only reason I ask is that between the 200 with .67 OD and the 700 with .7 OD there is only about 100 rpm difference, which really wouldn't be noticeable. Just trying to get a feel for these two beasts. That's correct. Their final drive is about the same, and it rolls well in 4th. Keep in mind your converter lockup, which is another aspect of converting some people forget about.

-Lost in the 60's - You recommend the the 200 because I have a pretty low rear end. Is this for the benefit of overdrive or the gear from 1st to 2nd being so steep in the 700. This does worry me a little bit, but for the street it really shouldn't be a problem. What tire size are you running? A taller tire will help negate some of that 1st gear on the 700 (and essentially give you more tire contact for traction)

-gearlube - Looking through your thread and it looks awesome! A lot of what I would like to do someday

Thanks again guys
Steven

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 also, re-reading your original post I saw you mentioned a truck vs car 700R4. I have a truck one in my car. Yes, you need to add the extension piece, then just get a yoke to match the output shaft. Simple deal, especially if your driveshaft needs to be shortened, they gotta cut an end off and anyway and re-balance it with new u-joints, swap in the new yoke.

I can only hope to aspire to the wisdom of you old farts some day.

With the lower gear in the 700 and 3.73 in the rear, the trans will go thru 1st in about 60 ft. It's not all bad but the low ratio in 1st is kind of wasted. It is designed for a much taller rear ratio.

As far as strength, the 200 can be built for 450~475 hp/torque dependably. When the engine starts pushing the 500 range or above, the 700 is a better choice. You can change the rear gears down for better use of 1st in the trans but, of course, that adds more expense to the build.

 

NOW, quit thinking about transmissions until AFTER finals.....  you have plenty of time ahead of you to plan a build, padwan...

Tim that is a dirty word here man!!!

You guys are old farts!!! But we wouldn't trade any of ya!!!!

Speaking of farts.......ahhhhhhhhhhh

 

oh ya...in that picture above kind of looks like Stan maybe?? 

-- Edited by gearlube on Monday 13th of May 2013 10:21:59 PM

I'll play the other side....

I have a 400hp, 350 with 4.10s and I run a 700R4. 28" tall tire. Mine was originally built by a shop and ran quite well for the 10 years or so I drove it until I decided I needed a shift kit. I had Randy at Affordable Transmission in Brooklyn park do the install and I am quite happy with it. He also can do performance rebuilds and is a drag racer himself. The 700s have some issues, but are good without any serious upgrading to the 475hp-ish area. The 700s did go through a slight change, with the later era one being more desireable (spline count, stronger internals) but like anything still needs a performance rebuild to do the job well (Vette servo, clutches, new band, etc).

I had a 700r4 before the LS1 swap. They say the gear split on the 200 is better, but if you don't have a lot of power now you might like the low first gear of the 700. It made my tired 350 feel like I gained 100 horse. A couple other things to check, try to get a 1987 or newer 700, they have upgraded internals. And, watch for the speedo output, later ones had electronic speedometers. They can be converted to cable, but it's an added expense.

gearlube wrote:

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 John from Master Trans is awesome. And he does not charge for advice. I would give him a call. He is a true car guy first! You learn a lot from advice...

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 I'll second that !!! he tried to talk me out of the hardened parts because my engine is almost stock right now but I wanted it built to handle anything I would throw in later. Cost me more but I don't have to backtrack if/when I put big power in it.

http://mastertransmission.com/

-- Edited by Lost in the 60s on Monday 13th of May 2013 08:59:26 AM

Hey gearlube, what made you decide on the 700r4 over the 200r4? I am curious because right now I have a 283, but am planning on building a 383 with roughly 400hp (this is once I get out of college and have what everyone else calls a steady income).

Hey welcome! I will have lots of photos to upload and share on my other post tomorrow. But I can cover my experience on the tranny. I had a th350 in mine. I switched to the 700r4 that I had built. I looked around for a while for a used one, but just had issues because newer trans need a lot of mods to make them work with a mechanical speedo for instance. It installs just like any other trans. I had to move the cross member back a few inches and re-drill new holes of the frame rails. Used the same bolts and trans mount.

I have a 12 bolt rear end and the drive shaft is 3 1/8th to long. I had my drive shaft done at proven force. It cost $121 to have it shortened and balanced with new u-joints front and back. They gave me a yoke to be able to take final measurements. You put in the yoke. Shove it all the way in and then pull it out 1 inch. Then you measure from the half way point on the yoke end circles to the front caps on the rear end. For me it was exactly 52". Then I emailed them that and they completed it. They turned it around in 24 hours too!

As far as the shifter I bought the 3 speed to 4 speed kit from http://www.shiftworks.com/chevelle-68-72.htm it includes everything you need. I also bought their shift cable from them too. Total cost was $164

As for the TV cable John from Master Trans suggested the Bowtie kit that is self. Adjustable. Here is the link. Includes the cable and all the hardware for the carb. http://www.bowtieoverdrives.com/catalog/catalog.php?Action=GETSUBCAT&CATID=WA3A3A1
Kit is $129

Hope this helps. One thing I have learned over many cars. Get the right tools and parts for the job. Don't skimp on the trans and don't order a trans from one of the Internet companies. I think I paid $1100 for my 700R4 and he provided the core.

I live in Farmington and if you want to come out and check it out, come on over beer is cold.

Welcome to the forum Steven!  Sounds like you are a little younger than most of the members, but that's cool.  We need more younger folks to keep the interest in one of the coolest cars Chevy built in the 60's and 70's. 

Check out Tom (Gearlube forum name) posts in this section on his 383 and 7004R trans swap.  He is going through exactly what you are researching.  His current post is titled 'First Day of my Chevelle assembly), and he should be updating again soon.  He did mention that the driveshaft needed to be shortened, so that IS part of the swap. 

There are pros and cons to both the 2004R and 7004R swaps.  If you search this forum you find a few posts where I installed a 2004R for the following reasons:

-Found a core for $125 in WI, but had to take Dashboard (Kevin) with me for his Naval combat training as it was at a crack house and those guys were wacky!

-The 2004R is a near match in length for the TH350 so it was basically a drop in with the same driveshaft.  I moved the cross member to the rear most holes, and it worked out great

-The 2004R has a higher 1st gear, and the gear spacing is closer than a 7004R, so able to use the power band of the engine more effectively.  It also has a slightly deeper overdrive gear of 0.67 vs. 0.73 if I remember right.

-I had Master Trans in Rosemount rebuild the core and it ran $1500 including the torque converter.  John there did a great job and made sure it matched up to the big block in front of it.  Tom had his 7004R also built by Master Trans

The 7004R is a good trans, and I'm not bashing it, so lot's to think about.  I suggest calling John at Master Transmission in Rosemount and talking it over with him.  He'll give you the straight scoop, and won't try to sell you something you don't need. 

Otherwise, have fun with the project, and hope to meet you Saturday!

Stan

 

Yes it is!

Oh... Welcome to the Forum!!

It's not just the housing extension, the steel mutha output shaft is different. The trans would have to be dis-assembled and the shaft changed to 2wd, and a new housing procured. Pass on this one.

You are correct on the "bolt-in-ness" of the gearbox. It will physically replace the 350, and usually a love-tap or two with a mallet will take car of any tunnel clearance issues. Most guys just drill 4 new holes in the framerail ears for the crossmember mounting, and you'll need to shorten the E-brake cable "J" hook a few inches. The converter should bolt right up.

Driveshaft is a slip-fit, no mods necessary. The 1/16" difference isn't an issue (there's probably that much variance in mfg's error car to car).