Discussion Forum - Northstar Chevelle Club

John D · 2K+ Club

'96 LT-1 / 4L60e Autopsy underway...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Probably glad you put those flanges in the exhaust now. I'd be cutting mine at that point...

Are you going to take a break to make the meeting at Dashboard's?

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

I really hope it is nothing seious. John you are right there are not that hard to work on compared to what is out there today.

John D · 2K+ Club

Yup, I'll be at Dashboard's! (I'm gonna repossess the engine stand!)

I've got to give credit to Derek for the "rear flange" idea. I've already utilized the convenience twice - to drop it for the 02 sensors, and now! Anyone running an "X" or "H" pipe setup should do this... you may never need it, but WOW it really makes things easy (and inexpensive) if you do!

John D · 2K+ Club

Got some "quality time" in the shop this afternoon/evening... started around 4pm and just came in.

4 things left to do, and it can be pulled:

Unplug the electrical connectors in the car (too dirty for interior work tonight) and dismount the bulkhead connector
Remove the coil from the driver's cyl. head (front)
Remove the hood
Attach the lifting slings

I am so glad I spent the time "imagineering" this thing on the initial build. Stuff just unclipped, unplugged & unbolted at the major attachment points, and it will come out of the car as a "power unit". (All of the accessories "crap" will have to come off the engine eventually, but it's a whole lot easier when it's bolted to a stand!)

Everything's tied off and capped/plugged, so other than some coolant (I couldn't get the friggin knock sensors/block drain plugs out) the engine's dry.

I've got the pan plug out, and it's draining now. I'm gonna confiscate a pair of pantyhose from one of the women around here, stretch it over a funnel with a bunch of magnets taped to it, and see what sticks...

It's looking like mid-week for a "pull party".

John D · 2K+ Club

A shout out to Dashboard - he came over this afternoon/evening and gave me a hand pulling the engine. Everything went smoothly, no damage and no forgotten bolts/clips/wires/etc.

Separated the trans from the engine and got it on the stand. Now the fun starts. Pulled the pan and found out the source of the noise.

It would appear that a crank/rod/piston kit is in my near future. I've spun a rod bearing or two... #8 let go, and as collateral damage took out #7.

So now the real fun begins. Clean the garage, and start the tear-down. Mic the cylinders and order a kit.

SShink · 3K+ Club

Well John, bad news, but at least you know what's going on (most of it anyway).

Time for a 383 crank and upgrade kit, especially if you are going to need a new crank anyway? I'm not sure if that's possible with an LT engine?

-- Edited by SShink on Tuesday 22nd of May 2012 10:03:02 PM

Enganeer · Mega Poster

John,

I do have a 1 piece block and crank I had left over I was trying to get rid off. Would the crank work for you? Looked okay.

John D · 2K+ Club

Thanks for the offer John, I'll think about it... I've got to get a little deeper into this.
Tear it down, mic the cylinders, and see if it'll fly with a "glaze breaking" and a std. bore piston/ring/rod kit and a 10/10 crank... then pull a few valves out of the heads and see what the seats & guides look like.

67ss · 1K+ Club

Man that is a bummer, hopefully the cylinder walls are good so you don't have to bore it out.

seagrams72 · Active Member

Done!

http://www.ellweinengines.com/DartERE383.html

SShink · 3K+ Club

seagrams72 wrote:
Done!
http://www.ellweinengines.com/DartERE383.html

Great minds Andy! As I was adding to my post, you put this up!

Enganeer · Mega Poster

For that price, go LSx

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

WOW that is unreal. You still had oil pressure. How high did you rev it at the track ? It may be cheaper to just build a 350 or 383 yourself. You mentioned 10/10 on the crank are you assuming it will turn down to that 10/10 on the rods or rods and mains ? for the cost of the machining it may be cheaper to buy new SCAT 9000
You can get stroker kits for SBC pretty reasonable. SCAT, Eagle, & Callies. I think SCAT has some good deals last time I looked and their 9000 crank is suppose to be pretty good (Cheap Skip White one on the bay)

http://skipwhiteperformance.com/

I got a set of Probe Pistons from him for the 496 I am putting together they were $100 cheaper then anyone else.
Sometimes you can find good deals on Racingjunk.com

http://www.racingjunk.com/search?searchString=383+kit+&searchBody=on

I got a forged Ohio 4.25" internal balanced BBC 4340 crank for $450 BN and it checked out dead on. Looked very nice they were overstocked and had a sale.

http://www.ohiocrank.com/chevsb_rotate.html

Flatlander sometimes has good deals and sometimes will give better deal over the phone or by email.

http://www.flatlanderracing.com/

SteveS · Super Poster

Enganeer wrote:
For that price, go LSx

Lots of cheap 5.3's out there...

Car-part

SShink · 3K+ Club

SteveS wrote:
Enganeer wrote:
For that price, go LSx
Lots of cheap 5.3's out there...
Car-part

Thanks a lot John E. and Steve! There you go putting LSx thoughts in my head again. I'm having thoughts of picking up one of those 5.3's with less than 100K miles and sticking it on an engine stand for a future single turbo project for that kind of $.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

Come Stan...you can see it can't you.

Great mileage, affordable, well behave little 4.8 or 5.3 that comes on alive when the turbo goes whoosh, pulling like a freight train.

I can hear the spool winding up right now!

Chris R · 2K+ Club

Enganeer wrote:
For that price, go LSx

That was my first thought as well. That is if a guy was going to spend that kind of money.

But given the current situation, Since you will need a crank kit anyways. Maybe its worth it to go with a 383 since your doing the same thing? Or, do you just swap in the other LT1 you have on the stand to get you through the season and build a nice 383 for swap back in this winter?

bowtie · Secretary

When I first did my engine, I got it with a spun bearing. Wagamon's resized the crank and one rod for about $100, got a rebuild kit from Northern Auto Parts in Iowa.

Had I needed a crank or even to be bored out, I would now be running a 383 crank kit from them too, but all was fine.

John D · 2K+ Club

SShink, Seagrams72, Enganeer, Bowtieman427, SteveS, and Chris R.... I'll be expecting a PM with your Credit Card numbers and Verification Code shortly. I'll spread the charges around equally and you'll soon see Blackie with a 6.0 LSx and 4L80e!

67ss · 1K+ Club

John D wrote:
SShink, Seagrams72, Enganeer, Bowtieman427, SteveS, and Chris R.... I'll be expecting a PM with your Credit Card numbers and Verification Code shortly. I'll spread the charges around equally and you'll soon see Blackie with a 6.0 LSx and 4L80e!

John don't be stingy with there cards, included the turbo and efi managment system.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

6.0L and 4l80E...my we have mission creep going on, what happen to a crank kit?

So have you found something?

John D · 2K+ Club

Naww. I've been sicker than a dog the last 2-1/2 days and haven't done anything other than shove it out of the way in the garage. I'll attack it this weekend and fully evaluate the damage.
I know #7/8 journal is toast, and the two rods - so at a minimum I'll be doing a crank and two rods. This is a minimum budget project guys...

Lost in the 60s · President

I gotta say, that was the strangest knock for a spun bearing that I've ever heard !!!! I never guessed it was that bad, especially with oil pressure....

Chris R · 2K+ Club

John D wrote:
SShink, Seagrams72, Enganeer, Bowtieman427, SteveS, and Chris R.... I'll be expecting a PM with your Credit Card numbers and Verification Code shortly. I'll spread the charges around equally and you'll soon see Blackie with a 6.0 LSx and 4L80e!

Stan and Enganeer said they would cover me. Thanks guys.

John D · 2K+ Club

I gotta say, that was the strangest knock for a spun bearing that I've ever heard !!!! I never guessed it was that bad, especially with oil pressure
Looking at the pics, it was just on the verge of the nasty "steel on steel" hammering sound, and catastrophic failure. There was still enough bearing shell left to maintain an oil passageway to the next journal, and being the 2nd in line from the pump it had plenty of volume available. I'll bet there will be some signs of oil starvation as I go forward on the crank.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

If you want some help, I can come over. Just let me know.

bowtie · Secretary

You know.............., they make a 6.2L that was found in the Denali and Escalades.

John D · 2K+ Club

Anyone need a boat anchor?? I've got a really heavy one, cheap!!

As suspected the carnage traveled forward from the 7/8 journal to the #4 main journal... it spun a main too (a line bore/hone was NOT in the picture for this rebuild).

Once I popped the intake off and saw "sparklies" in the lifter valley I knew things were not good. Further disassembly revealed damage in gradients as you go forward in the oiling system.

Well... I've got a spare. Looks like "Buford's" (Official NCC support barge) engine is coming out of mothballs, getting cleaned up, and being pressed into service for the '12 season. He's a little tired - 130K miles - but ran every bit as good as what was in Blackie.

Looks like the winter of 12/13 will be debating a snotty LT1 or going to LS power.

Enganeer · Mega Poster

Bummer,

At least you have spare to throw in. Run that till whenever or pull out and sell to a street rodder as a complete package and then goes LS power.

Lost in the 60s · President

Dashboard and I were discussing your spare today while on the way to Derek's. Seems the most logical solution to keep time and money at a minimum. 130k should still be good for a few more thousand to get Blackie back on the circuit. The LT1's were an interim engine like my Gen V big block and weren't produced for very long. I would make the next logical step of going to an LS engine when you are ready to put something shiny and new back in.

John D · 2K+ Club

"Note to Self" (and others).

Chevrolet engineers have always been touted as "getting it right" when it comes to the oiling system on the SB's & BB's... and I'll agree that the "Mains/Crank 1st" design is superior to the competition. But...

Who's the nitwit that decided to put the port for the oil pressure sending unit/gauge right on the main output gallery of the oiling system??

Duh! Unless the oil pump FAILS, or the #5 main bearing FAILS, or the #5 camshaft bearing FAILS the gauge or light will ALWAYS register adequate pressure!! It's on primary output gallery!

They should put the monitoring port off of the END of the #1 main bearing gallery!

John D · 2K+ Club

Update...

Between fixing other mechanical failures around the ranch, I've pretty much got Blackie's "LT-v2" put together.
Basically have taken the dirty/crappy/leaky stuff off of the long block, and replaced them (and gaskets/seals) with the nice & clean stuff off of LT-v1.

Chipping away at it, and waiting for the rebuilt 4L60e. I can't "do" everything until the trans is bolted to the engine... It has to go into the car as a "power-unit".

Lost in the 60s · President

Just tell yourself that once you get all these issues resolved, the rest of the year will be a breeze...

SShink · 3K+ Club

Time for an update John!

Trans delivered? Power unit ready to go back in? Need a hand?

John D · 2K+ Club

Went to pickup the trans today, and had a minor problem. It was built to the 1996 Impala/Roadmaster "rebuilders specs", which according to the trans bible dictate the longer of the two available shift shafts (the shaft the linkage attaches to). My car however was built for the short shaft (which was on my donor trans).

I explained that my car has the short shaft, and needed the reman'd trans to have the short shaft, as my shift linkage is custom. The rebuilder swears up & down "that all '96 4l60e's in Caprice/Roadies use the long shaft"...

That said, I walked him over to the cores I brought along (one from my car, another from my "spares" pile). BOTH units had the short shaft, and BOTH units came from '96 Roadmasters (one a wagon & one a sedan).
Another minor point of argument was that apparently there are also two case styles available - one for the "baby LT-1" 4.3L V8, and one for the 5.7L / 4wd. The difference being at the bellhousing flange the 5.7L units have an extra "ear" of aluminum cast in, the 4.3's are shaved off in this area. Both of my cores didn't have the "ears", so he swore up & down they were off of 4.3 cars. Again, both were 5.7L "P" vin cars...

We both learned something. GM willy-nilly installed 4.3/5.7 cases (same guts) into whatever rolled down the B-body line, and to ask which length shaft to build.

They're changing the shaft and I'll pick it up tomorrow.

I've got a lot of work to do before "stab it in day". The shop's a MESS, and I've got all the prep work to do mating the gearbox to the engine, then doing a mini-detail on the engine compartment, and getting stuff ready. I'll put a shout out when I'm ready..

Tim H · Mega Poster

Cool on the data now many of us all learned something. Too bad on the screw up on the builders part, I can relate to the messy shop.

John D · 2K+ Club

Wasn't the builder's fault - they go by a published "bible" that shows the standard configurations by make/model of the dozens of vehicle combo's a given transmission model can go into. They didn't have any problem changing out the shaft, but it was at the end of the work day when I went to pick it up.

John D · 2K+ Club

New trans is here, and sitting on the beer fridge cart. Too bloody hot/humid to do anything in the shop tonight... gonna lay low and watch TV.

John D · 2K+ Club

Got the "mini-detailing" of the engine compartment done, and the special VSS/speedo-drive tailcone swapped over to the new trans. Getting closer, and am shooting for being at North St. Paul.

John D · 2K+ Club

Engine and trans are in (not bolted down, but in). The next few days/nights will be putting all the "accessories" back on. Hope to light it this weekend and get some shakedown miles on.

Lost in the 60s · President

Either you work short days or you have more ambition than 3 people......

John D · 2K+ Club

Nope, a standard day for a tradesman... up at 5:30, home around 4pm.

After doing field service & installations for 20+ years, and fixing other people F'ups, I was determined to engineer this build with serviceability in mind. The nice thing about it is you don't remove anything from the engine to pull it... just disconnect plugs & fittings and remove everything as a unit. Plus the fact I built the thing, and know every bolt & nut (by size) on it speeds things up.

Examples:
Airbox & Computer - 2 bolts, 1 screw, 1 clamp, 5 connectors, lift it out.
Radiator & Fans - 4 bolts, 1 connector, 2 clamps, 2 fittings & it's out.
Entire Engine bay wiring harness - 3 plugs in the car, 2 screws and the harness is disconnected from the "car", battery cables from the battery posts, 2 ground wires to the body & it comes out with the engine.
Fuel System - 2 "quick connects" at the manifold... done.
Fluids - 2 fittings each for steering (at box), trans (at radiator), and oil (at rad support). Hoses/lines/pumps stay on the engine assembly.

I ran out of "stuff" to reconnect tonight, so the topside must be done. Tomorrow will be under-car stuff - converter to flywheel, inspection cover, mount bolts, driveshaft, e-brake cable, and exhaust.

Should be able to fill it with fluids and fire it tomorrow afternoon or Sunday AM.

John D · 2K+ Club

IT'S ALIVE!!!

A shout out to "Dashboard" who came over and spent a good part of his saturday reminding himself why he bought a lift!!

Got all the underside "stuff" bolted on, filled fluids, and fired it up!

After spending about 4 hours cleaning up the shop & hosing down the floor, I cleaned myself up and put about 50 miles on it tonight. I am one happy camper. The engine runs great, and the new transmission is perfect. I'll do more ever widening circles tomorrow then sign-off on the job.

Lost in the 60s · President

Glad to hear you're back on the road. I'll see it Friday...

Tim H · Mega Poster

I'm impressed that was quick considering the boat project was going on as well.

Bowtieman427 · Active Member

The is great news.

John D · 2K+ Club

I'm impressed that was quick considering the boat project was going on as well.

What was great about this whole deal is it justified to the wife about why I keep "spares" around... Granted, a spare alternator or starter doesn't take up as much space as a spare engine & transmission - but I've got one if I need it!! (Now I've got to find another "spare")

Lost in the 60s · President

I'm thinking your next "spare" should be an LSX...